Film Courage: In the beginning of your filmmaking career, how fearful or brave were you to ask
for more?
Rachel Grady: More from our subjects, more money?
Film Courage: Everything, everything.
I know you had talked about an interview on confidence versus being afraid to ask for
more.
And that really, a light bulb went off, not even that it was a gender specific idea [“women
should ask for more”] but just the fear of appearing too…
Rachel Grady: …Pushy?
It is gender-specific.
Film Courage: It is?
Okay…But I think you mentioned how you didn’t realize that was a thing [stereotype] and
that you both were okay asking for more.
Rachel Grady: I think a lot of women (professional women) have that kind of trajectory which
is (you know) as you have more success and you have more personal confidence, you will
ask for more.
And we’re two women, we own our own company, we have staff, and we’ve noticed over the
years that the boy employees will always ask for more, even if they don’t deserve it.
And the women won’t, so I think part of it is just that we matured and we got more
confident but also we are business owners and I think you see the world differently
when you are asking for money, when you are taking care of money, when you have staff
working for you, when you’re a director, when you’re telling people what your vision
is and expecting them…they work for you.
So all of the things that help people get more confident and ask for more, we were put
in a position that we were able to grow in it.
So now that we’re almost 30, we’re insanely confident.
Heidi Ewing: It is a privilege to make documentary films, it is a privilege to be in this business
and direct, but there’s also a marketplace for the stories we have to tell, there is
more of a marketplace than there has ever been.
And I think a lot of filmmakers, especially earlier in their career just feel so lucky
that anyone is interested in financing their work or supporting their work and I totally
understand that.
But I think it’s really important to graduate into a place where you realize that everyone
is moved by important stories well told.
And it’s hard to tell a story (an important story) well.
And so there’s a premium for those people who can do it.
And it’s important to realize that especially as a woman director, because if you don’t
ask, it will not be offered to you.
So you have to know that and sort of make demands that are reasonable, that are fair,
so you don’t just end up working for less or feeling less than.
So that happened pretty early on in our career.
I mean we put our heads down and we work and we make a movie, that’s what we do.
But we also know that this is important work that people want to see and will pay for and
that sort of thing.
So it’s really finding that balance between doing subjects that really interest us and
also realizing that it’s a business as well.
Film Courage: So then asking for more, being given somewhat access to FootSteps [the clinic
that was in their documentary ONE OF US], I think you said that they let you sort of
be in their lobby for a little bit, it was like baby steps with them?
Rachel Grady: No, that was the access that they gave us.
Heidi Ewing: That was it.
Rachel Grady: They gave us the ability to meet their clients.
That’s what we were asking them for.
Heidi Ewing: We did not film inside Footsteps hardly ever, except a couple of one-on-one
sessions which you see in the movie.
Film Courage: Right.
And they [those scenes in ONE OF US movie} are excellent, by the way.
Rachel Grady: Thank you.
Heidi Ewing: Those were hard-fought scenes.
Thank you!
Those were very, very hard to get.
Film Courage: I can see why.
Rachel Grady: So we weren’t asking them for more, that’s all we needed from them.
We were very persistent and patient, and gave them a good pitch of why we were the right
people for them to trust and they did it and then we met their members and we kept our
end of the bargain and we made a movie that they like and they can use in any way that
they want.
We all got something out of it, which is another thing that you understand as you get more
seasoned that everyone is doing something for their own incentive.
And you have to figure out what that incentive is.
Heidi Ewing: And also in terms of asking for more, I mean they had been contacted by multiple
filmmakers over the year and they had said “no.”
And so we said, but you haven’t been contacted by us and we have a body of work to show.
So it’s not abstract so much.
They could see all of our past films, our five plus feature-length documentaries plus
plus a lot of other work and they can judge for themselves how big of a risk is this.
Footsteps took a big risk.
They had no editorial control over the film.
They were not invited for any editorial feedback and so they had to trust that at least these
filmmakers didn’t have a specific agenda and would tell it like it is, which is all
we can guarantee.
And so they’ve kind of taken leaps as well.
And that’s what it takes.
It takes really, really brave individuals that will trust you and organizations in order
for this documentary thing to even happen.
And we rely on people to trust us and we rely on goodwill and we take it as a big responsibility
and big gift.
And it can be a heavy burden because people have trusted you and entrusted you with their
secrets and their stories and so that has not gotten easier.
That is just something that we grapple with every time.
Are we doing right by this person?
Did this person mean to say that?
Or is this the one day that they would say such a crazy thing that would be great in
the movie but they actually really don’t mean it.
So you have to sort of also suss out (you know) what is representative of a person or
an organization.
So we had to grapple with a lot of those sort of rocky moments on this particular movie.