Hey this is Steve Good on The Coin Chat with my co-host Yuri Cataldo and today
we are with a presidential candidate who's also a big fan of blockchain
Andrew Yang. Andrew welcome to the show it's great to have you on. Thank you for
having me both of you it's a pleasure to be here.
Fantastic. Thank you for joining us. So I am joining from my home, I was joking with the guys its my kid's
room. Even presidential candidates have to hide from their family sometimes.
Don't we all. I'm hiding behind a green screen here. I'm just glad I have a family to hide from. True!
So I think it's great to have you on the show really you know thank
you so much for taking the time out I know you're a busy guy you're out you've
got a lot of things to do to raise awareness of your your presidential
candidacy and generating all that interest and you know I think for Yuri
and I we just wanted to have a chance to talk with you and to help
you raise a bit of awareness around your campaign and kind of get to know a
little bit about what you're doing of course from our perspective we'd love to
hear a lot more about your interests in your your view on blockchain and we've
got some questions we've put together for you, to just you know, to have
an open discussion and just kind of hear where it's all going to go and
what you see is happening. Well thank you for that and thank you for sensing that
we're incredibly aligned where my vision of the economy is very consistent with
the people who are in the cryptocurrency community and are working on blockchain
advancements where we need to move towards a more decentralized system for
sure that's more transparent and blockchain you know it's like many other
technologies where it's going to have its drawbacks at various times but the
long-term potential is staggering. And really the reason I fell
into so many friends in the community is that I found that approximately
99% of people in the blockchain community are pro Universal Basic Income
which as you may know is the central pillar of my campaign. Yes. So I arrived
at that through the reality that we are automating away millions of American
jobs we've already automated away four
million manufacturing jobs leading to Donald Trump's election in 2016 and now
we need to start evolving and to me moving toward the blockchain is part of
that evolution so one of the things we're looking at right now is we could
potentially enable voting on the blockchain in a way that would free
people up from these lines at poll stations and all these systems that
everyone's like not even sure if they're getting attacked by the Russians and the
rest of it. I was just at a meeting of people who are looking to
distribute universal basic income on the blockchain which I think is where it
will go eventually I'm also for the implementation of a national digital
currency to supplement the dollar because there are many many things that
we could do that the dollar cannot do so this campaign really and one of the
jokes I tell is that people sometimes call me a futurist but I believe I'm a
present-ist it's just that most of the politicians are stuck in the past
because that's just their experience. For sure. For me I've been a serial
entrepreneur I've worked in technology for about 20 years and I know what's
possible so with people like you hopefully we can spread that word to
people around the country. So its an interesting point
that you made least a couple of comments and in this that I wanted to pick up on one
was the transparency which as you probably know with cryptocurrency when
you get into privacy coins it creates some interesting dilemmas especially for
the IRS and for tax. The other thing that I'm wondering about so I'm just gonna
ask you these two things together is that is that you know I'm based in
London by the way Yuri's based in Boston. So as an outsider that spent most of my
last two years in the crypto world as an adviser to other companies what I've
seen is a complete absence of the U.S. being really present
mostly because of regulation because of the SEC and I'm just wondering if you
have any particular views on how we can open up the potential channels for
allowing the U.S. to really thrive in a cryptocurrency community or a crypto
community a blockchain community when there's been so much that's restricted
America while we've seen China and Korea and Japan and India and
some parts of Europe just thrive, Russia, thriving because you know
technology and people have been able to really get into it and I've seen the
U.S. just kind of fall behind on some respects. Do you have any you know
thoughts on privacy and its impact on tax and also how we can open up the
channels to really open up the doors for more innovation in crypto and
blockchain for the U.S? You know I think the second point is so key where people
think of America is like the hotbed of innovation and technology when in
reality the American, certainly the political system, is quite backward and
retrograde and incredibly bureaucratic and you can see it with the blockchain
and other crypto currencies where the U.S. is essentially throwing its hands
up and been like you know don't really have an approach here and so as a result
certainly there are many people in America who are making use of crypto
currencies but it's a it's not as supported and there's a lot more
confusion in the u.s. because the place is not as forward-looking. So I hope to
be able to change that I mean as President I believe I can start to move
America forward and one of one of the other jokes I tell is that the opposite
of Donald Trump is an Asian man who likes...his goal is to freeze time and
turn the clock backwards and we need to accelerate time and move it forwards and
that includes certainly having a much more intelligent approach to the
blockchain and other technologies that would really so I think the other thing
that's going on in the U.S. that's very painful to admit is that there's just a
lot of rent-seeking in the US and the truth is if you had the blockchain and
other technology as fully revved up then you would end up disintermediating
accounting firms and law firms and financial institutions
and those substitutions really control much of the American system where no one
wants to let anything out that's going to end up disrupting their revenue streams
Interesting. Yuri over to you. So I...you're one of the few presidential
candidates who are accepting crypto currencies on on your site which i think
is amazing and you yourself have mentioned on your website that
campaign donors have to register and also not to share your wallet address so
that people can't make untraceable donations. I'd like to hear your thoughts
on how this could eventually maybe affect politics in the future
because a lot of people who...A lot of people believe that when they hear Bitcoin or
blockchain or crypto currencies they think of launderers, your money
launderers drug dealers and then dark money so how would you approach this
idea of getting cryptocurrencies involved without that dark money aspect?
Yeah and hopefully like even my campaign can be an example of this where if it's
simply an exchange of value there's nothing sinister about it and certainly
for us I joke that you could donate chickens to my campaign as long as I
knew that it was you and like you know chickens are worth a certain amount. So you can't just
anonymously donate Ether or a Bitcoin to our campaign from SEC rulings
like you have to tell us who you are and if we were to get something anonymous
then unfortunately we couldn't make use of it so that would sort of defeat the
purpose but hopefully my campaign can shine a light on the fact that this is a
great way to exchange value and transfer value to another party and that
you know my campaigns are already collected thousands of dollars and
cryptocurrency donations and we hope that continues
it's something you know I've always want to demonstrate I'm very very
aligned with the values of the community and so hopefully like you said like we
can disabuse people of the notions that like anything to do with cryptocurrency
means you're you know a drug dealer or something. So you know the fact that you
have the you know Bitcoin mentioned on your website
is interesting because one of the things that we've seen running a YouTube show
having website and all the rest is because of the word cryptocurrency or
Bitcoin anywhere through any of our channels
we can't advertise anything and I'm wondering do you have the same problems
having a website that has we accept Bitcoin causing you any problems with
advertising and generally for all the rest of us, if you're not having any
problems, if for the rest of us who are struggling to just run any form of
advertising on anything that we do what's your thought on that about how
much we're being blocked from talking about what we're doing and how we're
educating people in crypto or blockchain? Well that's really interesting I didn't
realize that because we haven't had those problems and it could be because
we have one page that says Bitcoin and we have like hundreds of... Could be. But those
restrictions are very interesting there are you know, I'm scratching my
head thinking like why those restrictions exist that you know like I
can imagine some rationale I'm sure that whatever is being done is overly broad.
Yeah I did a facebook live video today. It was less than five minutes
long and it was a quick explainer video for people to just understand how does
mining work why it's not a Ponzi scheme and what the mechanisms are for using
computers to mine and to verify transactions like the way a bank does.
That was it. Our marketing team attempted to go ahead and just you know promote it
on Facebook to make it more widely seen. Blocked. Not allowed. We have not been
able to advertise anything on our channels across Twitter, Instagram
Facebook, YouTube. Same companies again and again here it's Facebook its
Twitter its Google and I'm just wondering you
know at what point do we kind of open this up a little bit so that you know we
have to draw a line somewhere but you know it just seems to me that...
I mean like one that surprises me but two it shows just how much clout and
distribution power is concentrating in the hands of a handful of platforms. Yes.
And in a way what it does it highlights the rationale for the blockchain and Bitcoin and other
cryptocurrencies to begin with which is that you're trying to like create a more
decentralized you know system that doesn't rely upon like five
institutions or one institution or one government or whatever it is.
That's right. ...to approve. So in a way this is like you know proof positive of the
rationale for the importance of your work it's unfortunate that we
unfortunately are beholden to a handful of tech platforms to get the word out
and certainly as the presidential candidate I mean I've got a social media
team and we're like you know Instagram living and the rest of it so I get it
and if you're not on these platforms and it's like you don't exist so you know so
entrepreneurs out there in a way what we need is we need some more decentralized
social media platforms though I don't know how you do that because of the fact
that ubiquity in that context obviously ends up driving utility. There's
definitely a number of them on the way I've come across a few of them myself
and there's a range of things that they're trying to do to create a
decentralized environment for social media and they run into similar problems
around mostly around privacy because they don't want to hold the data but in
order for their systems to actually be smart enough for provisioning the
data they run into problems of do we hold the data or do we allow the users
to control the data and it's an interesting problem because you know
we've seen what the Cambridge Analytics problem did to Facebook and so
what I see is a lot of these blockchain projects that don't want to go down that
path and yet are confronted with sometimes they need some of the data and
they're trying to figure out what the line is where the balance is so they're
not seen is doing exactly what nobody wants. Thats so interesting.
I want to tell you guys a joke that I told at this blockchain event that I spoke at earlier this week
Which was someone asked the question why is Bitcoin worth $7,000? And then the response was why is
$7,000 worth $7,000? But you know it's because what you're describing
really is you know and it took me a little while to get it it took me a
little while to understand the ethos of what was possible and what the community
is driving towards but I'm convinced that we need to move in that direction
as fast as possible that we need to replace this mindset of resource
scarcity that is taking over certainly the U.S. in a very dark way and replace it
with a mindset of abundance and future orientation and and what is still
possible and that the fact that you know we can build a very different kind of
society very quickly but we need to get our acts together and this
is one of the things I told that Bitcoin folks to so I'm running for president
you know and some people probably many of the people listening to this right
now well they think themselves wow this guy seems sort of interesting but the
but is there's no way he can win. Something along those lines.
We've heard that before haven't we? Yes so I'm heading to
Iowa for the 8th time next week and what I boil it down to for people is like I'm an
Asian guy and Asians are really good at tests. And so it so the question is like
what is the test to become President United States? And it turns out there's
all of this like media noise and like endorsements there's really only one
maybe two tests involved. Can you win the caucus in Iowa and can you win the
primary in New Hampshire in February 2020. Now I'm just going to
break this down for people listening because the you know it makes people
realize what's possible. So Iowa is a state of 3.1 million people but only 5.6%
of them participated in the Democratic caucus last time a hundred
seventy-one thousand out of 3.1 million. So let's let's make that number
200,000 how many people do we think are going to run for president as a Democrat this cycle?
a few dozen 20? 30? Yes so if let's say you have 20 to 30 candidates and you
have 200,000 votes how many Iowans do I need to get on my
side saying we should get $1,000 a month dividend in order for me to finish the
top three in 2020 maybe 25 to 30,000 Iowans. Yeah Yeah top three so when
people go through all this and say like hey you know a longshot candidate blah
blah blah none of it matters if we can get 30,000 Iowans on board with the idea
that them getting $1,000 a month's a good idea and when I go to
Iowa I'm already polling. I'm already tied with Kirsten Gillibrand in Iowa
of last year because I go to Iowa and I ask people have you noticed
stories closing and you're in your towns and they say yes and then I say why is
that and then they say Amazon and I'm like that's right and what are you gonna
do about it and then they look at me they're like I can do something about it
and I was like well if you make me president I'm gonna bring them back at
the house and dollars a month to you and you can rebuild your Main Street economy
and give your kids a reason to stay and that gets 20% of them thinking yeah like about the only thing we can do.
So I'm just presenting this as like vision as to how change is possible much
much faster than people think. Sure. Yeah so while you're in Iowa cuz
that's interesting the the idea of a universal basic income is something I
know that's been floated before but a lot of people are hesitant about it. What
are some of the strategies you're using to talk to Iowans about why it's
important to do this? Well I talked to them about the fact that Trump's our president
because we got rid of 4 million manufacturing jobs including 40,000 in
Iowa so they saw that happen and then you say hey what happened
the manufacturing jobs we're about to do to your retail jobs, your call center
jobs, your food service jobs, your truck driving jobs, all of which are huge
employment categories in Iowa and and so then I say look it may seem far out or
socialist to you but if you look at our history Thomas
Paine was for it Martin Luther King was for it Richard Nixon was for it Milton
Friedman was for it a thousand economists were for it and it's been law
in one state Alaska for the last 37 years where everyone in that state gets
between one and two thousand dollars a year and they look at me and they're
like that happens? Yeah you can move to Alaska you get that money too. They pay for it with oil and then I asked them
what is the oil of the 21st century and then they scratch their head for a
second and then someone says technology and I'm like that's right
what we did for Alaska with oil we can do for you and the rest the country with
technology. And isn't Norway already doing something like this anyway because
Norway is like a massive oil-producing country and the citizens have like a
really really light nice life there I mean I I don't know exactly what they're
doing but I know that there's some sort of system that enables them to all have
a very comfortable life because of the amount of oil that's government money.
Yeah the Nordic countries northern European countries like Denmark they
either have incredibly robust social safety nets or something close to the
equivalent of a universal basic income right now. Right. But as you can
imagine in the U.S. certainly Alaska is a much more you know like relevant
example for that because and also Alaska is like a deep red conservative state so
then it makes them think like this is not somehow some like far left Socialist.
God forbid a Democrat should be supporting what's happening in a
Republican state. Yeah someone called me the shuffler. We'd like to see that live! Yeah and like libertarians are coming
out for me many Trump voters are coming up to me and saying I voted for Donald
Trump I'll vote for you because you're an outsider you want to shake things up
you're talking about the same problems he was talking about but your real
solutions. Interesting you stated on your website that Americans should be able to
vote via their mobile phones of verification done by a blockchain how
would you sell that to the older generation of American people and calm
their fears about being hacked or issues with using some new technology and you
know to kind of you know lower their fears considering some of
the noise we heard from the last election. Yeah so the truth is that any
voting system you're gonna have you're gonna be working with legacy systems and
the paper backup for some period of time so to me the the big move we have to
start making is we have to start making it so you have multi-modal voting where
people who are comfortable voting on their smartphone just like beep-boop done.
And then if you're an old person you want to wait in line like be
our guest but you pretty much need to keep them both around for a little while
because the other thing is that people would be concerned about not having some
kind of hard hard copy back. Sure. So this is this has been absolutely
fantastic chatting with you so far if the cryptocurrency community would
like to get behind what you're working on or find out more of that how can
they best work with you and support you and and get the word out
about what you're doing? well thanks so much for asking. Just go to yang2020.com you get a sense of our platform if you
do have some cryptocurrency around that you'd like to donate to the campaign
just go to yang2020.com/crypto and then you can make a donation there
we could certainly use your help those of you who like to create memes I really
want to become the Internet candidate. Are you doing any...
any kind of meme competitions on Instagram or Twitter at all? We're doing
some stuff like that but we're not as far along we haven't caught really like
the right set of memes as yet but my team super optimistic about it because
apparently I'm more meme-able than many of the other candidates. What does that mean? you know I mean
one thing is like there's like the Drake gods playing video where he's just
giving money to people and there's like sticking my head on it I'm actually
giving $1,000 a month personally to a family in New Hampshire
that got picked up by CNBC and the rest of it just to illustrate shocker $1,000
a month will actually help people's lives. Yeah. So I'm like here's $1,000 a
month. The people are like you know is that allowed and I'm like apparently.
We checked with the SEC it is allowed.
and and and it was so inspiring that a couple in Georgia said that they're
gonna donate $1,000 a month to another family in South Carolina just to support
my campaign just to show giving people money would actually improve people's
lives. Amazing. I know there...yeah it's incredible! Like we can really start a
movement here that helps open people's eyes to the fact that value can be
distributed very very very differently and that this can be a world of
abundance instead of a world of resource scarcity and a dog-eat-dog. Yeah well we
certainly talk about scarcity versus abundance that's something that Yuri and
I are both learned a lot about and we talk about because we know how important
it is that when you're trying to fundraise for a project or raise money
as a company and be successful that you want to create that feeling of abundance
and that there's the ability to make things happen rather than being held
back because something getting in the way so we talk about that all the time
because it's a fundamental thing to run a business or to be successful. Yeah guys I'm a serial entrepreneur, before this I started an
organization called Venture for America that trained hundreds of entrepreneurs
and created thousands of jobs in the Midwest and South that's why I know what's
going on in the Midwest and South. Thats one reason why I vibe so well with your community is that
you all are so entrepreneurial and future-oriented and have that mindset of
abundance that's necessary to make any of these positive things happen and its
one of the things I try and explain to people it's like look if you want people
to be entrepreneurial you can't have them living paycheck to paycheck and
freaking out about paying their bills every day right now that's not going to
lead to business formation and creativity whereas if you get people's
heads up and start thinking hey if I build this then I could make it better
and I can get the resources and like we've got a great idea so that's one
reason why I love the work you all do in your community so much because we need
to create that mindset in people all around really all around the world yeah
well I was working in big corporate world you know and I left it to do
crypto and I've been independent now for the last two-and-a-half years just
working helping companies advising them with strategy helping them figure out
where they're going with their product roadmaps
and all that kind of stuff and it's it's an interesting place to live being you
know truly entrepreneurial on my own and we're gonna get Yuri to do the same soon
too right Yuri? That's right. I gotta say it's the best thing you'll ever do it's the
hardest thing you'll ever do it's like the most growth inducing thing you'll
ever do yeah you know so it's all of those things but it helps it helps
elevate the human experience in my view. So just for a moment I mean
we're talking blockchain what we're gonna do I just want to ask a question
because we're here talking about the you know the universal basic income premise
how do you fund it because one of the things I listen to one of the podcasts
that you were on and it sounded like you were talking about and maybe I got this
wrong but you were talking about you know the big conglomerates like an
Amazon that's taking jobs away and now you might want to perhaps tax them more
or create a VAT tax but what I'm thinking about is how does that work so that it
doesn't damage the growth of these potential companies have and at the same
time enable a level playing field for everybody to actually get the
universal basic income without it affecting them affecting the companies
around them? Yeah so the VAT I'm recommending is half the European level
which would not meaningfully affect the incentives for automation and innovation
and I talked to techies and entrepreneurs and they actually say like
that's a much better approach than if you would actually for example tax AI
or tax like specific things so they're like that's more of like a
gentle redistribution and if you look at it every advanced economy already has
one except for the United States. Right. We have sales tax in the US
versus a VAT so would you still retain the local sales tax on each state
and then put a national VAT on top of all sales? Yeah I mean as you say the
state tax is very much a state-by-state decision some have it, some don't but
keep in mind that all of the money is going straight in the hands of American
consumers and it's gonna go right back into like the hands of businesses around
the country including like the Amazons of the world so when I talk to CEOs they
find this plan to be much much more amicable than some of the other things
that are being bandied. Interesting. Guys I've got a run but thank you for the work
work that you do anyone who
to follow up with any of this please do does Google Andrew yang or go to
yang2020.com and let's build a future that we can be proud of together
so keep it up thank you guys so much. Thank you thank you for coming on the show and
we'll look forward to seeing you for perhaps a live episode at one of the
caucuses if you'd like. Oh yeah it'd be a lot of fun. Just head to Iowa or New Hampshire. I'll me there.
Thank you hey thank you very much for joining us
hey and thanks everybody for joining us today on the The Coin Chat with
Andrew Yang who is running for President and also a big advocate of blockchain
To the Moon! Until next time.