hey guys Spirit of the law here in this video we're going to talk about the DLC question mark
coming to aoe2 titled return of Rome now right off the top I have to say I don't have any
special Insider information regarding what this is but I know it's been discussed heavily on the
forums and there's a lot of different ideas about what this could look like as it sounds unlike any
DLC we've had before the first thing we learned about it was on the anniversary live stream where
we heard they'll be quote bringing Age of Empire's Definitive Edition into the Age of Empires 2 d e
engine now engine is a confusing term here as they're both already on the same Genie engine
but the question then is whether this is going to be like aoe1 with a few extra features or is
it going to feel like aoe2 on the Age of Empires forums there's a poll asking other players what
they're hoping for from the DLC and to what degree it should reflect each game ranging from as close
to a wee one as possible all the way up to being basically aoe2 civilizations with an ancient theme
maybe not surprising given this was on the aoe-2 forums around 60 percent of response wanted either
most ab2 features or just aoe2 civilizations with a classical era spin as close to aoe1 as possible
was dead last so there you have it the plebeians have spoken remember this is an aoe2 DLC or is it
is this a DLC or is it a separate game we know it's not like a regular DLC adding two or three
civilizations something like dynasties of India is still suggested on the roadmap and applied to be
coming out in 2023 but the fact the announcement says this is quote adding aoe1 de content to aoe2
it really sounds like a completely separate game mode to me I imagine and many others
have suggested that it could just be a separate launcher where when you start the game it starts
as either aoe2de or return of Rome using totally different data sets that couldn't even be played
against each other if you wanted to I'm sorry if this is what you were hoping for but there is zero
chance you're going to be using centurions against conquistadors and it would be insane to try to mix
the two sieves with each other like that so I think we can safely rule it out whatever this
ends up looking like the aoe1 saves are 100 going to be just playing against each other now if we
take it at face value and that they're straight at bringing aoe1 into aoe2de I think a lot of
people are going to wonder if that's not what should have happened to begin with with a wee1
definitive edition why were the devs so adamant about keeping everything in aoe1de so close to
the original game if they're just going to update it again to be more like aoe2 a couple years down
the road and basically just do the project again now a cynical person might say it's to sell the
game a third time but I do think there may have been a good explanation for not giving us an A1
and aoe2 hybrid the first time around one factor that a lot of Western players may not be aware of
is that aoe1 is a hit in Vietnam specifically for example from liquipedia of the big Age of Empires
won tournaments with prize pools over a thousand dollars this year you can see they're basically
all in Vietnam considering Vietnam's average annual income is about 1800 US dollars a year
it shows that being good at aw1 is big business in Vietnam and that there's obviously a very
very large following you can see there's several tournaments per year worth the equivalent of a
hundred thousand dollar tournaments for someone in North America or northern Europe if you compare
median wages you can see why Vietnam is such a popular destination for digital Nomads and expats
so why is a we went so big in Vietnam and what does that have to do with Definitive Edition and
the new DLC the phenomenon is explained well in an article at fanbite.com titled Vietnamese gamers
are keeping a 20 year old strategy game alive the short answer seems to be due to weak copyright
enforcement computer salesmen would often put legal or perhaps not versions of a wee1 on
computers by default like you might have Solitaire or Minesweeper that means a whole lot of people's
first experience with computers would have given them some exposure to aoe1 and hence a lot of
nostalgia for that game specifically assuming this is an accurate characterization I have to believe
that the plan of sticking as conservatively as possible to 81 mechanics in Definitive Edition May
partly have been just wanting to not mess with the formula too much hoping Definitive Edition would
catch on in Vietnam cashing in on that Nostalgia and active scene now Microsoft would know better
than I would but from Steam statistics it seems that gamble did not pay off of all the Age of
Empires definitive editions aoe1 has the smallest player Base by a significant margin at this point
it's a borderline Dead game and doesn't seem to have been picked up widely by Vietnamese fans
with a wee1 definitive edition being perhaps a failed gamble at the Vietnamese Market and AOE 2
fans finding it outdated it's possible that that's what this DLC is intended to address doing it in
the aoe-2 engine for lack of a better word could signal the addition of formations Gates pathing
improvements Etc but that's also not necessarily where it stops what about garrisoning in town
centers that's something the aoe-2 client has and the AOE one doesn't and can also lead to some
very frustrating and short games likewise are they sticking with aoe1 map scripts or would they start
using aoe-2 once that may then also imply we're using ab2 standard starting resources as another
example can you buy and sell at the market and what about trade carts on land and as an infinite
gold generation system when you start to look closely there's a lot of choices they'll have to
make about whether this is going to be AOE one yet again or Embrace this as an aoe2 inspired update
as an AOE 1.5 as it were after thinking about this quite a bit the Crux of it is I don't think
there's a way to do an AOE 1.5 where you meet both games in the middle even if they bring over
all of those features I just mentioned from aoe2 when you get to the tech tree you have to make a
serious choice if you go with the aoe1 tech tree of centurions Chariot archers axemen and Slingers
it may seem like that's the only way to do it but in my opinion that would make this not an AOE 1.5
but an AOE 1.3 leaning more toward aoe1 than aoe2 it would still be a game in aoe2 only player would
start and be very lost at the tax units and at least some of the game mechanics now this is what
almost everyone assumes is going to be happening and I don't disagree it seems most likely though
the poll suggests this is not what aoe2 fans want they want aoe2 not just a wee1 again alternately
and more radically If I Can Dream for a moment they could instead go from the opposite direction
and start with a slightly modified aoe2 Tech Tree maybe renaming the text to be more fitting with
the ancient era but start there and pull the game slightly in the direction of aoe1 this would give
us what I'd call AOE 1.7 we'll say Landing more toward aoe2 and where in AOE 2 player would be
very comfortable in even their first game in fact we have a great example of what that could look
like in the Roman War fan created mod as that's what it is they had to make some tweaks replacing
the hand Cannon ear in trebuchet with more ancient era counterparts the crossbow line is replaced by
all archers Knights become cavalrymen it's not exactly the same but it can be done with even
just superficial changes rome at War takes this further with new game mechanics like double deck
unique text though it wouldn't even need to go that far in this case they could still preserve
the idea of bringing aoe1 to aoe2 by having Romans get cheaper towers and faster attack for example
and have legionaries as their unique unit it would feel like aoe2 but with the novelty of using
ancient civilization in their own separate game mode to my eyes in this poll this is what people
would be excited about though again this is very likely just a pipe dream and simply porting over
a wee1 seems to be what we're getting personally I would also greatly prefer the approach of starting
from aoe2 as this is an aoe2 DLC aimed at people who already own that game of course there is a
potential genuine criticism here as well depending on how it's done that if they just port a we1 over
with some minor tweaks it really could feel like just another attempt to sell you a wee one for the
third time obviously that concern goes away if the changes are quite large or if this is free
or heavily discounted for aoe1 Definitive Edition owners and that may be possible as well personally
I'd be surprised but we can't rule it out entirely the only way that plan makes the most sense to me
is if they're just trying to move over the last few players from Age of Empires 1. rather than
keeping a wee one Definitive Edition limping on and doing periodic updates they can then shut that
down and say they just rolled it into aoe2 another criticism I've seen if they just poured over aoe1
is that it might actually be a bit misleading as someone new to aoe2 might just assume they
need all the DLC and get dawn of the Dukes Lords of the West and just throwing return of Rome in
there as well not realizing the devs have snuck essentially a version of aoe1 in the list tricking
them into buying a separate game entirely I could definitely see someone very casual buying the DLC
thinking they're just getting the Western Roman Empire in aoe2 as a playable faction obviously
just seeing the title doesn't imply it's a we won or we wouldn't be having this discussion
and I mean the game has Huns after all and Western Romans are also in the campaigns already so it's
not like including Western Romans and AOE 2 would be completely out of nowhere now if that confusion
can be avoided in some way then maybe having a few DLC campaigns would make it appealing to some ab2
players especially if they were on the same level as AOE 2's campaign quality it's an established
fact that there is a huge number of campaign-only players and even if it sold for ten dollars that's
probably worth it to a lot of people just to relive a more palatable and user-friendly
version of aoe1 with some new campaigns telling different stories obviously all of this will be
clarified when it comes out in 2023 either early or later in the year depending on how
ambitious they are with it but those are just my ramblings on the topic and as someone who loves
both aoe2 and the classical era I got very excited by this announcement especially at the possibility
it might be an official version of something like Rome at War though I am becoming less convinced of
that every day since I'm curious to hear your guys thoughts though and if you're happy with an av1
update or hoping for something much more like AOE too thanks for watching and I'll see you next time