(upbeat music)
>> From around the globe, it's the CUBE
with digital coverage of Postgres Vision 2021.
Brought to you by EDB.
>> Hello everyone, this is Dave Vellante for the CUBE.
We're covering Postgres Vision 2021,
the Virtual CUBE edition.
Welcome to our conversation with the CEO, Ed Boyajian,
the CEO of Enterprise DB.
And we're going to talk about what's happening
in open source and database and the future of tech.
Ed, Welcome. >> Hi Dave, good to be here.
>> Hey, several years ago at Postgres Vision event
you put forth the premise
that the industry was approaching a threshold moment,
and digital transformation was the linchpin of that shift.
Now, Ed, while you were correct,
and I have no doubt the audience agreed,
most people went back to their offices after that event
and they returned to their hyper-focus
of their day-to-day jobs.
Yeah, maybe a few accelerated their digital initiatives
but generally, pre COVID,
we moved at a pretty incremental pace
and then the big bang hit.
And if you weren't digital business,
you were out of business.
So, that single event created the most rapid change
that we've ever seen in the tech industry
by far, nothing really compares.
So, the question is, why is Postgres specifically
and EDB generally the right fit for this new world?
>> Yeah, I think, look a couple of things
are happening Dave.
You know, right along the bigger picture
of digital transformation, we are seeing the
database market in transformation.
And, and I think the things that are
driving that shift are the things that are
resulting the success of Postgres
and the success of EDB.
I think first and foremost, we're seeing
a dramatic re-platforming.
And just like we saw in the world of Linux
where I was at, Red Hat during that shift
where people were moving from Unix-based
systems to X86 systems, we're seeing that
similar re-platforming happening
whether that's from traditional infrastructures
to cloud-based infrastructures
or container-based infrastructures,
it's a great opportunity for databases to be changed out.
Postgres wins in that context because
it's so easily deployed anywhere.
I think the second thing that's changing
is we're seeing a broad expansion
of developers across the enterprise.
They don't just live in IT anymore.
And I think as developers take on more power
and control, they're just defining the agenda.
And it's another place where Postgres shines.
It's been a priority of EDB's to make Postgres easier
and that's coming to life.
And I think the last stack overflow
developer survey suggested that, I think they
survey 65,000 developers, the second most loved
and the second most used database
by developers is Postgres.
And so I think there again,
Postgres shines in a moment of change.
And then I think the third is kind of obvious.
It's always an elephant in the room,
no pun intended, but it's this relentless
nagging burden of the expenses of the
incumbent proprietary databases and the need.
And we especially saw this in COVID.
To start to change that, more dramatically
change that economic equation,
here again, Postgres shines.
>> You know, I want to ask you,
I'm going to jump ahead to the future
for a second, because you're talking about
the re-platforming and with your Red Hat shops
I kind of want to pick your brain on this
because you're right.
You saw that with Red Hat and you're
kind of seeing it again when you think about
open shift and where it's going,
my question is related to re-platforming
around new types of workloads,
new processing models at the edge,
I mean, you've seen an explosion
of processing power GPU's, NPUs,
accelerators, DSPs and it appears that there
this is happening at a very low cost.
I'm inferring that you're saying Postgres
can take advantage of that trend as well,
that that broader re-platforming trend
to the edge, is that correct?
>> It is. And, and I think, you know
this is the this has been one of the
I think the most interesting things with posters.
Now I've been here almost 13 years.
So if you put that in some perspective,
I've watched and participated in leading
transformation in the category.
You know, we've been squarely focused on Postgres
so we've got 300 engineers who worry
about making Postgres better.
And as you look across that landscape a time,
not only as Postgres gotten more performance
and more scalable, it's also proven to be the
right database choice in the world
of not just legacy migrations but new
application development.
And I think that stack overflow developer
survey is a good indicator of how developers
feel about Postgres, but, you know
over that timeframe, I think if you went back
to 2008 when I joined EDB, Postgres was
was considered a really good general purpose database.
And today I think Postgres is a great general
purpose database.
General purpose isn't sexy in the market,
broadly speaking but Postgres capabilities
across workloads in every area is really robust.
And let me just spend a second on it.
We look at our customer base as deploying
and what we think of as systems of record,
which are the traditional ERP type apps, you know
where there's a single source of truth.
You might think of ERP apps there.
We look at our customers deploying and systems
of engagement, and those are apps that you might
think of in the context of social media style
apps or websites that are backed by a database.
And the third area is systems of analytics where
you would typically think of data warehouse
style applications, interestingly,
Postgres performs well.
And our customers report using us
across that whole landscape of application areas.
And I think that is one of Postgres' hidden
superpowers, is that ability to reach into
each area of requirement on the workload side.
>> Yeah. And as I was alluding to before.
That, that itself is evolving as you now
inject AI into the equation AI inferencing.
And it's just a very exciting times ahead.
There's no, there's no database, you know
20 years ago it was kind of boring.
Now it's just exploding.
I want to come back to that, the notion of
of Postgres that maybe talk about
other database models.
I mean, you've mentioned that you've evolved
from this, you know, system of record.
You can take a system engagement
on structured data, et cetera, Jason it's-.
So how should we think about Postgres in relation
to other databases and specifically other
business models of companies that provide
database services? Why is Postgres attractive?
Where is it winning?
>> Yeah, I think a couple of places.
So, I mean, for first and foremost,
Postgres, you know at its core,
Postgres is a sequel relational database
a trend in acid compliance, equal relational database.
And that is inherently a strength of Postgres
but it's also a multi-model database.
Which means we handle a lot of other, you know
database requirements, whether that's geospatial
or, or Jason for documents or,
or time series, things like that.
And, so Postgres extensibility is one
of its inherent strengths.
And that's kind of been built in from the
beginning of Postgres.
So not surprisingly people use Postgres
across a number of workloads because at the end
of the day, there's still value in having
a database that's able to do more.
There are a lot of important specialty databases
and I think they will remain important
specialty databases, but Postgres thrives
in its ability to cross crossover in that way.
And I think that is, you know one of the
different key differentiators in
in how we've seen the market and the business
develop.
And, and that's the breadth of
of workloads that Postgres succeeds in.
But, but our growth if you kind of ventured
it across vectors we see growth happening,
you know, in a few dimensions.
First, we see growth happening in
new applications.
About half of our customers have come
to us today for new, new Postgres users
are deploying us on new applications.
The others are our second area migrating away
from some existing legacy incumbent.
Often Oracle, not always.
The third area of growth we see is
in cloud where we're Postgres is deployed
very prolifically both in the traditional
cloud platforms like EC2, but then again also
in the database as a service environment
and then the fourth area growth we're seeing now
is around container deployment,
Kubernetes deployment.
>> Well, you mean Oracle's prominent
because it's just, it's, it's,
it's a big install base and it's expensive
and people, you know they got to look at that.
I mean, It's funny.
I do a lot of TCO work and mostly, you know
usually TCO is about labor costs
when it comes to Oracle it's about
license costs and maintenance costs.
And so to the extent that you can reduce
that at least for a portion of your state,
you're going to, you're going to drop
right to the bottom line.
But, but, I want to ask you about the kind
of that spectrum that you think about
the prevailing models for database
you've got on the one hand, you've got the
right tool for the right job approach.
You know, it might be 10 or 12 data stores
in the cloud.
On the other hand, you've got kind of a
converged approach.
You know, Oracle is going that direction,
clearly Postgres, with its open source
innovation, is going that direction.
And it seems to me yet that at scale
that's a more, the latter is the more
cost-effective model.
How do you think about that?
>> Well, you know, I think at the end of the day
you kind of have to look at it.
I mean, the, the business side of my brain looks
at that as an addressable market question, right?
And you heard me talk about three broad
categories of workloads and, you know,
people define workloads in different buckets,
but that's how we do it.
But if you look at just a system
of record in the system of engagement market
I think that's what would be traditionally viewed
as the database market.
And there that's, you know, let's just say for the sake
of arguments, a 45 to $50 billion market.
The third, the systems of analysis
that market's an $18 billion market.
And, and, you know, as we talk about that
so all in it's still between 60 and $70 billion market.
And I think what happens, there's so much heat
and light poured on the valuation multiples
of some of the specialty players
that the market gets confused.
But the reality is our customers don't get confused.
I mean, if you look at those specialty players
take that $48 billion market.
I mean, add up Mongo, Reds, Cockroach,
Neo, all of those.
I mean, hugely valued companies
all unicorn companies, but combined
they add up to a billion bucks.
Don't get me wrong, that's important revenue
and meaningful in the workloads they support,
but it's not, it doesn't define the full
transformation of this category.
Look at the systems of analysis again,
another great, great market example.
I mean, if you add up the consolidation
of the Hadoop vendors, add in there, snowflake
you're still talking to, you know
$1.5 billion in revenue in an $18 billion market.
So while those are all important technologies
the question is in this transformation move
did the database market fully transformed yet.
And my view is, no, it didn't, we're in the first
maybe second inning of a $65 billion transformation.
And I think this is where Postgres
will ultimately shine.
I think this is how Postgres wins,
because at the end of the day, the,
the nature of the workloads fits with
Postgres and the future tech that we're building
in Postgres will serve that broader set of needs.
I think more effectively.
>> Well, and I love these tam expansion
discussions because I think you're right on.
And I think it comes back to the data and we all
we all talk about the data growth, the data exposure
and we see the IDC numbers.
Well, you ain't seen nothing yet.
And so at data by its very nature is distributed.
That's why I get so excited about these new
platform models.
And I want to tie it back to developers
and open source because to me,
that is the linchpin of innovation
in the next decade.
It has been, I would even say for the last decade
we've seen it, but it's gaining momentum.
So, so in thinking about innovation
and specifically Postgres in open source,
you know, what can you share with us in terms
of how we should think about your advantage
and again where people are glomming,
leaning in to that advantage?
>> Yeah. So, I mean, I think, I think you bring
up a really important topic for us as a company,
Postgres, we think is an incredibly powerful
community and, and when you step away from it,
again, I, now you remember, I told you,
I'd been at, I was at Red Hat before
now here at EDB.
And there's a common thread that runs
through those two experiences.
In, in both experiences the companies
are attached and prominent alongside a strong,
independent open-source community.
And I think the notion of an independent
community is really important to understand
around Postgres.
There are hundreds and thousands
of people contributing to Postgres.
Now EDB plays a big role in that about, you know
approaching a third of the contributions
in the last release, released 13 of Postgres
came from EDB.
Now you might look at that and say,
gee, that sounds like a lot, but if you
step away from it, you know at about 30%
of those contributions, most of the contributions
come from a universe around EDB
and that's inherently healthy for the community's
ability to innovate and accelerate.
And I think that while we play a strong
role there you can imagine that having,
and there are other great companies
that are contributing to Postgres.
I think having those companies participating
and contributing gets the best
the best ideas to the front in innovation.
So I think the inherent nature Postgres community
makes it strong and healthy.
I mean, and then contrast that to some of the
other prominent high value open-source companies.
Companies and the communities are
intimately intertwined. They're one in the same.
They're actually not independent
open source communities.
And I think that they're therein lies one of,
one of the inherent weaknesses in those.
But, Postgres thrives because, you know
we bring all those ideas from EDB.
We bring a commercial contingent with us
and all the things we hope, we emphasize
and focus on, in growth and Postgres.
Whether that's in the areas of scalability,
manageability, all hot topics,
of course security, all of those areas.
And then, you know, performance as always.
All of those areas are informed to us by
enterprise customers deploying Postgres at scale.
And I think that's the heart of what makes a
successful independent project.
>> Common editorial powers of, of that ecosystem.
They, they they're they're multiplicative
as opposed to the, the resources of one.
I want to talk about Postgres Vision 2021
sort of set up that a little bit.
The theme this year is 'The Future is You'.
What do you mean by that?
>> So, if you think about what we just said,
posts, the category is in Tran-,
the database categories in transformation.
And we know that many of our people are interested
in Postgres are early in their journey.
They're early in their experience.
And so we want to focus this year's
Postgres Vision on them.
That we understand, as a company who's been
committed to Postgres, as long as we have.
And with the understanding we have of the technology
and best practices, we want to share that view,
those insights with, with those who are
coming to Postgres.
Some for the first time, some who are experienced.
>> Postgres Vision 21 is June 22nd and 23rd
go to enterprisedb.com and register.
The CUBE's going to be there.
We hope you will be too.
Ed, thanks for coming to the CUBE
and previewing the event.
>> Thanks, Dave.
>> And thank you.
We'll see you at Vision 21.
(upbeat music)