We're very lucky to be joined once again on the program by senior strategic
organizer for RootsAction.
Andy Walton, welcome back to The Damage Report.
>> Thanks so much for having me.
I'm happy to be here.
We're glad to have you here, it's been a bit since we last spoke.
And the main topic that we wanna talk about is student loan debt,
massive crisis that we address a lot on the show.
And we have a lot of expectations for
what Joe Biden who promised he would do something about this, might do.
So we're gonna dive into that.
But I know since we last spoke obviously, so you had been a candidate
who had this surprise victory in the primary for mayor of Buffalo.
And then a lot of stuff happened after that.
I know a lot of our audience very closely followed what was going on with
that whole situation.
But is there anything you wanted to add about what's happened in the interim?
>> Well, I mean, the one thing I want everyone to know is I'm okay [LAUGH].
I'm doing lots of therapy and yoga.
But the city of Buffalo and the establishment here has not heard the last
of me and has not heard the last of my supporters.
We had a very tragic incident happened on May 14,
where there was a racist terrorist attack in the black community.
And this person was able to identify the grocery store where he could
find black people because he was able to Google the zip code.
Buffalo is the sixth most segregated city in the nation.
And this is by design this, these are policy decisions.
And the people who are in power right now,
the same ones who went out on Jefferson Avenue in Buffalo and
decried systemic racism are the perpetuators of that.
And we are watching it continue to be supported in this redistricting process,
where they are continuing to attempt to dilute the voting power of black.
And Latinx people here in the city of Buffalo and we're not having it.
So a part of the work that I am privileged to be able to do is stay on the front
lines and stay in the streets.
And let people know that these things are happening.
And that they're not right.
And that we have alternative choices.
>> I'm glad that you brought that up.
I wasn't sure if we would talk about tragedy.
It's been now a good number of weeks and
obviously because this is America in the time since what happened in Buffalo.
We've had a number of different mass shootings including just in the past
couple of days.
And there's obviously nothing that can happen that makes that not such
an unimaginable tragedy.
But one could hope that at the very least such an obvious indisputable
motivation for it.
That we could come out of it with people having learned something.
Being forced to grapple with some of these ideologies and motivations for
this terrible violence.
It's been a few weeks now.
What do you feel was learned if anything, out of this?
We had the little bill that they passed.
What do you think in terms of the reaction to what happened and
the opportunity coming out of it?
>> I am disappointed but not surprised.
And the first interview that I did after the tragedy happened, I said,
I wanna know what happens when the cameras leave.
And what happened is that it's back to business as usual.
And I think that from an outsider's perspective,
one could assume that our government believes that people
don't commit mass murders once they turn 21.
Why are we allowing AR 15's to still be purchased
in this country no matter what the age of the person is.
It's an assault weapon.
It's meant to kill and destroy.
There's no reason why people need to own them.
And I think that this draws a direct connection to the frustration that a lot
of folks have with the Democrats,
is you are supposed to be the party that wants to keep us safe.
You're supposed to be the party of the people.
You're supposed to represent workers and diversity.
And you have failed to protect our children?
You failed to protect women's reproductive rights.
And you failed to cancel student debt.
So what is the incentive that we have to keep voting blue no matter who,
when the conditions in our communities just continue to get worse?
>> And to be told in the wake of all of these tragedies of a variety of
different types that, that should be the only response?
Vote harder.
If we vote hard enough, then eventually the Democrats could control
the White House, the Senate and the House.
And then imagine what would be possible then, Wait,
they have that right now and it's seemingly not enough.
But look obviously as we've alluded to in this conversation,
there's a lot of different areas that we can and should critique them on.
But one of them and it fits very well into what we've been talking about is the so
far the complete lack of willingness to do anything about student debt,
which I know is an issue that you work a lot on.
And you had a great write up that I read on common dreams about it.
So tell me a little bit about the magnitude of the problem.
What you think can and should be done to deal with that problem?
>> There are tens of millions of Americans with student
debt that equals more than $1.7 trillion.
And just like most things in this in this world, the burden disproportionately
falls on people of color, and specifically, women of color.
Well, guess what?
I'm a black woman who has student debt.
So this is an issue that affects me personally.
It has prevented me from being able to realize my American dream
of being a homeowner.
And being a person who is a former registered nurse.
Has had a very stable salary and giving so much of that into student loan repayment.
And even having my debt to income ratio
dependent upon a commodity that should be free.
We should want an educated citizenry in this country.
And just knowing that people who take out student loans tend to be of lower income.
And having our opposition tell us that this is gonna benefit wealthy doctors and
lawyers.
I know that for myself to be untrue.
It's going to benefit people who probably wouldn't have been able to afford to
attend college in the first place, if not for student loans.
>> And that's anytime you bring it up, you get the response from people who will
either frame it as it only affects people in grad school or lawyers or whatever.
Or they're coming up from the other angle of, well, I already paid off mine.
Then why should money ever go to someone when it wouldn't go to me and yet
we subsidize the oil companies for billions of dollars.
We've managed to make it work in that case.
And so Joe Biden obviously is a person who is aware of this crisis.
He campaigned on doing something about it.
Perhaps not at the level that you or I would choose, but
he said he would do something.
They set up this commission to look into it and they looked into it for
what felt like about 75 years.
And then they told us months ago, in two weeks we're
gonna roll out our plan and a lot of time has now passed.
And what are your expectations for what they're gonna do?
They had alluded they're gonna do the $10,000 at least.
But now week after week after week passes, what are your thoughts at this point?
>> I am putting all of my rose colored hopes and dreams on full cancelation
without means testing for every single person who has federal student loans.
And some other form of relief for folks who have private loans.
But this is America and I've been here now for 40 years [LAUGH].
So I know that the most likely possibility is that we'll either see broad
cancelation of $10,000, which is still gonna have a significant impact.
And if we do see a larger amount, it's probably gonna be means tested.
And it will likely make less than $150,000 a year.
Which will still have a great impact but
not as great as canceling student debt altogether.
I mean when we're thinking about inflation and gas prices and the housing crisis.
The thing that is going to help those issues that we have,
is going to be allowing people access to more of their own capital.
The less we have to pay back to this predatory education system,
the more we have to invest in things that we really need in our everyday lives.
>> And that actually gets into what my next question would be.
So let's say hypothetically your dreams were to come true, the dreams of millions
of millions of Americans were to come true and you had to do these cancelations.
What do you see as the short and long term benefits of that?
What can we expect to happen if that cancelation were to occur?
>> I think that we would see an increase in home ownership,
especially in communities of color.
And I mean, I'm not saying it's a single source solution.
We have to look at a lot of policies, we have to look at lending policies,
redlining, credit worthiness and those guidelines and things like that.
But I think that so
many people are strapped under the weight of worrying about student debt.
I know people in my generation who have delayed marriage,
who have delayed having children because they owe student debt.
I think that we'll just see a happier,
more balanced society in the short and in the long term.
And I think that canceling that student debt,
is the first step to canceling medical debt, consumer debt.
And also just making higher education free for
people who live in this country because we we deserve it.
Our taxpayer dollars go to fund the war machine and
the prison industrial complex and things that are not making society any better.
The least we can do is put the money where it really matters and
that is into education.
And that is into the pockets of so
many Americans who really need that in order to survive.
>> I wanna ask you one more question.
I think a lot of people can speculate about what effect
it would have on people's ability to spend money, own a home, own a car,
start a business, all that.
And they see how beneficial that would be.
And it's easy to speculate about even if Biden didn't care about
the economic reality, that this would help him politically.
And help other democrats at the very least and yet, nothing happens.
So, it leaves a lot of people just bewildered.
So why do you think it is, that so much time has gone by and he hasn't yet acted?
In an environment where he apparently can do so little because of mansion or
cinema or whatever, why not do this thing?
What is taking so long?
What do you think about that?
>> I have heard Biden on several occasions speak on this topic.
And I think that he really doesn't believe that we deserve it.
I think that he believes that canceling student debt is a young person's issue.
And it's not.
It's an issue for people who are in their 20s, 30s, 50s, 60s, 70s.
There are people right now whose Social Security is being garnished because
defaulted on student loans.
So to say that millennials need to suck it up,
is just misinformation.
It could have been done a long time ago.
We know that he can by executive action forgive student debt.
And it's going to cause issues in the midterm elections.
And it's also gonna cause severe hardship for folks who are staring
down having to resume payments come September 1st., something has to be done.
>> And just think about even if you didn't care about the substance,
allowing the repayment to start like on the eve of the election.
I mean, it doesn't really stand out compared to all the other stupid things
that Democrats do politically.
But what a boneheaded move?
And you're totally right that it's not just a young person's issue.
Obviously not everyone has student loan debt.
But I think it would be difficult to find someone whose sibling, spouse,
parent, child, friend isn't struggling massively with this issue.
It affects so many people.
So, I appreciate you raising this with your Op-ed.
I appreciate the work that you do for RootsAction.
I wish that you were instead the mayor of Buffalo right now.
But I do appreciate what you're doing and joining us on the show Andy.
As always, thank you for joining us.
>> Thanks a lot.
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