-Another thing that seems to, uh...
seems to be splitting the way Democrats think,
not just the idea of electability
but also the idea of impeachment --
is this a fool's errand?
I think you have many in the party who think
this is a man who's done plenty of things
that are why we have impeachment as an option
and others who are saying,
"No, we need to focus on the ballot box as a way of removal."
What do you think?
-I think this is another one of those things where Democrats
are sort of outthinking themselves,
like in the same way with the electability thing.
Like, you may really want to beat Donald Trump.
You can't personally work out
who's the most electable candidate to win the primary.
In the same way, impeachment --
you sort of can't really game out
what the political impact of impeachment is going to be.
That's not the kind of process impeachment is.
If a president commits crimes,
commits high crimes and misdemeanors,
the way the Congress is supposed to hold him accountable
is by opening an impeachment inquiry,
doing an investigation, and then voting
on whether or not they think that it rises to that level.
Whether or not that hurts the President, helps the President,
hurts the Democrats, helps the Democrats,
A, is unknowable,
and, B, should be beside the point.
And if you're doing it for the right reasons,
I think you are more likely to persuade the country
that you've done it for the right reasons
rather than you having tried to think everybody around a corner,
in terms of how this is supposed to work out.
I just think just be -- Approach these things simply.
Pick the best candidate
who you think would make the best president.
Approach impeachment
in terms of the Constitutional imperative here.
Who cares who it's good for?
-It does strike me, as well,
whether he is impeached or not, he'll act like he was impeached.
-Yes. Yes, yes.
-And, you know, he's gonna -- he's not gonna --
if he doesn't get impeached, say, "You know what?
That was a real fair shake I got from the Democrats.
I tip my hat." -Yeah, exactly!
-"I may have been wrong about those bozos."
-It's true. They're gonna run campaign ads.
He's gonna give speeches talking about them
being socialists who want to impeach him.
There's nothing you can do
to make him not call you a socialist.
-Right. -Just do what you think
is right. He's gonna call you names.
If you're really lucky, he'll give you a diminutive Nickname.
-Yeah. -Congratulations.
-Yeah, that'd be a winner.
-There's no way that you can get around that stuff.
And he will -- And the Republicans
will all campaign as if the Democrats
are just "impeachment-mad socialists,"
so just do what you think is right.
Don't worry about what people say about you.
-We both talked about Trump's adventures in Europe,
and that was just --
in general, I just found a peace with him being there
just because it shifted by five hours when things could happen.
[ Laughter ]
You know, at like 9:00, if I was at dinner,
I had a thought of, like,
"If I haven't heard anything now,
he's probably asleep," you know?
[ Laughter ]
But you -- -You were so good, though.
When you described him as, like, every American tourist thing
that anybody has ever done wrong anywhere in the world,
he's doing them all at once. -Yeah.
-Like, that's exactly what he was.
When you described him that way,
I was like, "That's what he's doing!"
He's embodying all of the worst stereotypes
that everybody in the world has about dumb Americans,
and he's living them large! [ Laughter ]
Like, with their leaders. It was just...
-Yeah. Well, you can tell they look at him,
and they're not saying,
"Oh, I've met a guy like this before."
They're like, "I've met a guy like this before,
but it was 100 different guys." -Yes.
[ Laughter ] -Like, this --
He's like a Voltron of all of it.
-Yeah. -You had a wonderful --
I had not seen this photo that you called out
on your show last night, which is,
here's the Trump family in a picture.
And I will say, they all look lovely, beautiful gowns.
-The Trump adult children. -Trump adult children.
-Why are they there?
They don't work for the government.
-Who pointed this out to you? Did you find this on your own?
-So, I was reading the Irish press because,
as you talked about on your show, as well,
Trump goes over to Ireland and is like,
"Yeah, about your border wall with Northern Ireland..."
It's like, "Dude, there's no border wall
with Northern Ireland."
And that's a really sensitive subject!
please don't go there. Ugh!
So, I was looking at the Irish press
to see how they covered that disaster by the President,
and what I found was they were like,
"Hey, look at this picture of the Trump adult children.
Isn't that lovely, how they're posing for that photo?"
-That's great but we're gonna zoom in on something over here.
Right there. "No photos."
-"No photographs." [ Laughter ]
-They literally -- They literally are like,
"Let's take a picture," and they're like,
"Well, not over there, 'cause it says 'no photographs.'"
And they're like, "No, let's do it there."
Yeah. [ Laughter ]
-The President's whole family poses in front of
the "No Photos" picture.
Yep, that's pretty much our lives now.
-That's their style. That is their style.
[ Laughter ] -Yeah.
-I want to be serious here for a second,
because you've done a really good job of covering
a very scary situation right now with all the abortion laws
that are being passed at the state level.
-Yeah. -And, obviously, there was
a lot of talk about what Alabama did,
but there's also a lot happening in Missouri right now
where there are basically efforts being made
to close the last abortion provider in the state.
-Yeah. -Can you talk a little bit
about, like, what actually is happening there
and how punitive it is,
these laws that they're talking about?
-The thing that's different about what's happening
in Missouri right now is that they are the closest
any state has ever been to completely ending
legal abortion access in the entire state.
No state has been able to do that since Roe vs. Wade
was passed by the Supreme Court in 1973.
But for the first time, Missouri's state government,
the Republican-controlled state government,
is trying to shut down the last abortion provider in the state.
So they're trying to take the last clinic's license away.
And as they are doing that, the state government has come in,
and they have told the doctors at that clinic
that while they're still open and while women are still able
to get abortions there, the doctors at that clinic
must now start giving medically unnecessary pelvic examinations,
like vaginal examinations, to women, specifically --
basically, as the cost of them asking for an abortion.
So, it's medically unnecessary.
The doctors don't want to do it. There's no reason to do it.
The women who are getting abortions do not want this done,
and the state government has come in and mandated
that they get this extra internal exam
while they're trying to shut down that last clinic.
And so, we've been reporting on that for the past week or so.
The state government in Missouri got very mad at us
about reporting on it, but it's freaking true.
And we went to the clinic and talked to the staff there
about how they are being forced to do this to their patients now
on orders of the state.
And it's just --
I think it's upsetting, I think, to a lot of people,
both the state of abortion rights around the country
and what's going on in Missouri,
but the fact that they're doing that to these women
on order of that state government
is just sort of horror-movie disturbing.
-Well, we certainly appreciate you guys actually getting
on the ground there and going and talking
to those people 'cause that is incredibly informative
and necessary at times like these.
[ Cheers and applause ] Last thing I want to ask.
-Yeah. -You are, in the middle
of all this -- moderating debates,
hosting your own show -- you are writing a book, as well.
Just to like relax and unplug, you're writing a book.
Is it a fun -- It's a fun romantic-comedy romp?
Is that a safe way to describe it?
-Yeah, it's a romantic little ditty
about the geopolitics of the oil and gas industry.
[ Laughter ] -Rachel!
Rachel, no!
-No, I do that. You know, I do some vaping.
It's, like, pretty much, like, It's my kicking downtime.
-"Blowout." It's called "Blowout."
-It's called "Blowout." It comes out October 1st.
Yeah, I'll come back and talk to you about it.
-Okay, great. I look forward to it.
It's always great to see you. That's Rachel Maddow, everybody.