alex the truth of the matter is you are
not qualified to be able to decide on
the nuclear foreign policy of your
country let the smart people do it i may
not be but i can choose someone who will
be and i certainly know who is it is it
boris johnson it may not be but it's
suddenly not you
hi welcome to nas debate
[Applause]
today we will talk about democracy what
type of government works best is it a
democratic government or is this
something better than democracy on my
left debating pro-democracy i've got
alex zweck
[Music]
hi everyone my name is alex and i'm
going to tell you why democracy is the
best option out there to help the most
people
thank you alex and on my right i have no
sire who is voting against democracy
[Applause]
hello everybody
today i would like to argue for the
unpopular
and i would like to say that democracy
is not the best form of government today
before we start let me explain to you
how this debate is gonna work our lovely
audience has voted pro or against
democracy at the moment it is 66 percent
pro-democracy but at the end of the
debate they will vote again and let's
see who is more convincing will it be
alex or willoughby sire now let the
debate begin
alex i have a question for you do you
think my t-shirt is pretty some people
say yes some people say my t-shirt is
ugly now imagine if everybody in the
world was forced to wear my t-shirt that
would be terrible people have different
tastes we all agree the diversity of
thought and diversity of governance is
important but for some reason when it
comes to democracy the west
which is where you come from thinks that
it's one size fits all this is why we
need a better form of democracy for more
people around the world
[Applause]
so messiah it's easy to say that me
myself is from the united kingdom and we
have democracy but actually my family
came from outside the west all the way
to the west to take part in democracy
because they realize like many many
other people listening that democracy
has so many good things about it the
democracy provides safety it provides
comfort and it provides you with choice
that is why democracy has shown over
time that is the best form of government
out there
great great point alex you said
democracy provides you with safety
senegal has democracy kenya has
democracy the south side of chicago in
america has demo has democracy in fact
it is the most democratic government in
the world yet there is no safety in the
south side of chicago there is no safety
yet compton there's no safety in some
parts in the slums in kenya so the idea
that democracy provides you with safety
and opportunity and only democracy does
that is wrong so safety is not just
about security on the streets
safety also is the ability to choose
your leader and decide who makes the
laws and who decides the direction of
the country right some people say oh
it's the person with the phd but that
doesn't mean they're going to make good
decisions and at the end of the day
it's subjective right who is right who
is wrong so if it's subjective i want to
be able to have a say in who may make
the best decision and that is something
democracy provides that others do not
and this is exactly why i have a problem
with democracy alex you work in a
corporation in the big big decisions at
nasa academy do you let the software
engineer take the decisions do you let
the designers take the decisions or do
you as chief business officer take the
decisions for others the idea of
democracy is that one vote equals one
say is flawed because even if everybody
deserves a voice
not every voice is equal in value
so there's a big difference between a
corporation and a country when i work at
a company i had the choice to leave the
company but in the world today if i live
in a country i don't always have a
choice to lead that country my passport
may not allow me i may be stuck there
and so i want to be able to have a say
over my leaders
and the leader if it's not me then it's
going to be subjective who is the right
person to decide who my leader is well i
think i'm the best not you or not anyone
else do you think a uneducated person on
the street should have a say of the
nuclear policy of the united states or
the uk i don't think they should have a
say
history has shown that in other
countries where there isn't democracy
the person who who rules the country
doesn't know more about nuclear policies
there is no evidence that has shown that
that person is better in a better
position to make a decision i'm glad you
bring that i'm glad you bring that point
because you are implying that democracy
works yet we've exported democracy to 30
countries around the world kenya senegal
pakistan bangladesh are they richer
are they sweden right now has democracy
truly lifted the citizens that are
watching right now or has it only
generated conflict over conflict over
conflict
not everybody can live by the standards
of your country
not every democracy is perfect but the
beauty of democracy is that every four
or five years we can change the leader
in every country you mentioned we have
the ability to choose a different leader
if it's not working out in a situation
that doesn't have democracy we are stuck
and by the way there are many countries
that don't have democracy that are just
as badly run as countries with
democracies that don't quite work yeah
great
you mentioned the beautiful thing about
democracy is that it changes leaders
every four years that's actually the
terrible thing about democracy the
biggest problems in your country the
sewer system in your country the
infrastructure in your country the
nuclear arsenal the army in your country
needs more than four years to fix it
needs 10 years to fix 15 years to fix
what's happening in america or in
democratic countries every four years
there's a zigzag there's a new policy
heck you work at a startup to build a
small startup you need five years so
that's what's great about democracies
that have been over time is that they've
established ways to have elected leaders
change every four years but have a
system under it that lasts much longer
so the people in in a good democracy
what you have is you have a civil
service people who run the day-to-day
are fixing the sewer or fixing the roads
and then the overarching policies are
decided by the people who change so that
means you can have both you can have
your cake and eat it as well okay great
so what we what he is saying that
democracy works because we infuse a
little bit of dictatorship in it
that's all you're saying because some
part of the government does not change
and people cannot vote to you're saying
that's good all i'm saying is let's make
that the whole government let's make the
smartest 2 000 people in a country
choose the direction of the country
democracy only works when the population
is sufficiently educated and that's not
the case in 90 of them
so nassar this is where you're wrong you
think or the way you're talking is that
there's only one way for a country to
move forward and that's only decided by
the smartest people but in reality a
where your country moves away a country
moves forward is a choice if the
decision is going to be wrong if they're
going to be mistakes made along the way
i would much rather have a role to play
in those decisions than to let someone
make mistakes without me having any say
no country has a binary choice it's not
this road is better this road is worse
it's a zigzag and you learn along the
way i want to play a role in my
country's zigzag well actually alex
there are some roads that are wrong
democracy elected hitler hitler came
from democracy was that a zigzag did we
zigzag out of it yeah through world war
ii and 50 million deaths so who do we
blame world war ii on the rise of hitler
and what do we blame the rise of hitler
on the democratic government which
enabled populism to exist so in the case
of world war ii that was a very low
point for democracy but let's be clear
democracy did not cause world war ii
what happened was is that the elected
leader changed the system
germany did not become a radically
elected leader germany did not become a
democracy anymore that was the problem
and that's down to to do that's to do
with the institutions around the
democracy correct but in a functioning
government where there's smart people
that are able to make the decisions they
would say no to hitler they would say no
to trump because the average person
could tell
that there's something wrong with this
leader we should not allow them to
manipulate the rest of the population
this is why democracy is dangerous every
leader comes and promises you a business
seat in their plane
but they don't know how to fly a plane
[Applause]
but hang on a second let's take that
same period of time in the 20th century
not only did we have hitler with
democracy but we had stalin and stalin
was not a democracy and that led to
millions of deaths so it's all very well
saying that democracy gives you death
but actually the alternatives give you
death as well yes
yes that's correct that's great now that
we are both on the same page let us
actually have some progress all i'm
saying is that guys the rest of the
world let me tell you something that the
uk and the british parliament will never
tell you there is a better form of
governance that we can explore together
and it's not dictatorship we don't like
dictatorship you don't like to care ship
but
not the whole world wants to live by the
ideals of one country so i think let's
be clear democracy is not just something
from one country over periods of time
many many countries have adopted
democracy and adopted the idea of
democracy which is that people have a
say there can be many different forms of
people having a say but at the end of
the day democracy allows you to have a
say in some form great idea
but flawed execution democracy came from
athens athens is that britain by the way
no that's not bernie that's greece
and you know who actually participated
in the democracy only the top one
percent of the greeks was actually
rich enough to talk about democracy and
introduce democracy to the world so
actually the average greek citizen was
not part of the democracy and that's
where it came from so are you in favor
of that form of government that's all
i'm saying can we explore that form of
governance in which there is democracy
but only at the top let's take ancient
greece ancient greece had the perfect
system messiah is ancient greece alive
today
no did that system work so well well
look it didn't work because ancient
greece is no longer around but the
democracy that i talk about that
everyone gets a vote is still around
today is the third reich around
is the third rag around it had a
democracy in 1920 or whatever that also
failed countries come and go that's the
reality of it so nassar if we don't have
a democracy in the way that i describe
who should run countries
the queen you're queen
[Music]
so the way it could potentially work
there are different forms of governance
called technocracy pestocracy whatever
it is
what if at the point in which you're
about to vote we ask you we give you a
simple test do you know what the
constitution is do you know what the
nuclear weapon is do you know where
russia is on the map if you answer these
three questions correctly you get to
vote how about that it's a modified
democracy so nasara i love that you're
thinking in such an idealistic way but
let's just talk about the reality the
reality is you decide that some people
are smarter than others if you think
that the technocrats are the people who
should run the country then you're
basically saying that 50 60 percent of
people who don't have access to that
education don't have access or the money
to do these things do not have a right
to participate in that country so you
are being elitist you're saying that
that running a country is reserved only
for people who have access to money and
i don't believe in that and i think many
people here don't believe in that
great
so alex let us live your ideals do you
let everybody in the company decide on
the company you don't you don't believe
that the collective power is actually
smart enough to run the company you're
running you don't believe that so why do
you agree with that for the country a
country and a company is the same in
fact the number one reason why everybody
here is rich or well up is because
companies generated the value because
they are run very effectively the way
companies are run is more effective than
the way governments under the way you
want governments to run i'm not saying
in a democracy that everyone votes on
every decision a good democracy elects
the leader who then appoints the people
to make those decisions so if i'm a
farmer
i can vote for the person who i think
can pick the right person to do foreign
policy it doesn't necessarily need to be
the farmer yeah and if we look at
marginalized groups
right well the beauty of democracy is
that it gives a seat at the table so
it's not about making every decision but
it makes sure that minority voices are
heard and taken into account in
decisions
this sounds great in paper
but an execution is different on paper
we can all agree on everything but if we
look at the data in india if you run
under the name gandhi the last family
name gandhi you still get tens of
millions of votes people in reality vote
based on name they vote based on
feelings they vote based on lack of
information the truth of the matter is i
would love a farmer to participate but
the farmer has not done their homework
to be able to participate
so messiah this is why i love democracy
because with donald trump americans got
to have a vote four years later and look
donald trump is no longer in power so
the democracy allows you to to have
checks and balances to combat decisions
that may not be the best for the country
does democracy allow uh the uk to rejoin
the european union
i don't think that's going to happen any
time soon some decisions that are taken
by democracy are catastrophic and they
lead to death real serious death
we don't want the crowd and the majority
to control
the world
we if you talk about minority rights
what is the minority right if i live in
a city in which 90 of the people are
white and i am black there is no way in
hell this city will ever get a black uh
uh mayor so where are the minority
rights in democracy
so nassar i think this whole debate has
been about democracy is bad but you're
not proposing dictatorship is good
you're avoiding dictatorship and you're
saying this is some magical in-between
world
that can exist
but the reality is that there are very
few if any examples of that so the real
choice that people have is do i want a
democracy or do i want a dictatorship
and i know
that i rather have the problems of
democracy around what you said around
education than i would in having a
dictatorship
look i'm not here to argue for
dictatorship i am here to say that
there's a big problem in the system
today in which people that have no
information or education they are making
decisions
that affect your life and my life and if
somebody is about to control my life
they better be educated they better have
done their homework this is why i go to
the best doctor this is why i want to
live in a country in which the most
educated voters get to decide
so nasara i think actually what you're
saying is democracy is great we just
need more education and if that is the
argument then democracy wins which says
it is the best system out there and
let's work on educating the masses on
the important decisions to be made i
think if that's the choice today then we
should be voting for democracy and work
together to improve democracy not trash
democracy and come up with something
entirely my friends
another idealistic point of view that
cannot be executed
what does it mean to educate the
population do you want to go and educate
1.4 billion people in india that'll take
years do you want to educate a hundred
million people in egypt that'll take
years
it's unrealistic and it's impractical
what i'm proposing is let us decide who
the smartest people in the country are
and let them
lead
and now it's time for the closing
statements alex thanks sophia so
everyone who's been watching this debate
there are two sides of this one is a
side of hope and one is a side of just
giving up giving up on the world
and you know what i'm on the side of
hope because democracy has shown over
time that in a system in a world full of
imperfection it is the best system out
there and i also like democracy because
even when we get it wrong
we always have a chance to correct it so
if you believe that we have a chance in
the future to make things better then
you should vote for democracy thank you
[Applause]
[Music]
thank you alex nussayer closing
statement guys imagine buying a phone
that has not been updated for 20 years
you would not use that phone
he is not arguing for hope he is
actually the one with the hope he is
taking a system that was designed 200
years ago and he wants you to live with
it because he's too lazy to come up with
something better i am not lazy i am
hopeful i think with the collective
people with the collective power we can
come up with a better form of governance
so that's why you are on the hopeful
side and let us fix democracy before we
make another mistake remember at the
beginning of this debate we let our
audience vote pro or against democracy
the voting was 66
pro-democracy
and we are really curious to see what
the result will be right now okay time
to vote
oh my goodness oh my god
there's no way this is true oh my
goodness oh my god what's happening here
oh no
the world's changing that's what's
happening
a very interesting end result at the
beginning it was 66
pro-democracy and 34 against democracy
we flipped the switch it is now 59
against democracy
yes
democracy works only when the population
is sufficiently educated good debate
good divide thank you
thank you thank you guys
[Music]