Welcome to "Bridging the Gap."
I'm your host, Brea Baker, and in this episode,
we're celebrating Asian American Native Hawaiian Pacific
Islander Heritage Month with some of the brilliant talent
and creatives behind the Academy Award–nominated
Walt Disney Animation Studios film,
"Raya and the Last Dragon."
Part of my experience in this country
was always just trying to assimilate and become
a little more American, you know?
I was trying to search for who I am, what my voice is,
and that is viewed as being disruptive.
To recognize that you deserve to be in a room,
was and is such a constant journey for me.
[CALMING MUSIC]
Hi, everyone.
I am thrilled to be joined by some
of the fantastic talent at Walt Disney Animation Studios.
We've got Carrie Liao, Fawn Veerasunthorn, and the voice of
Raya herself, Kelly Marie Tran.
Thank you so much to each of you for joining the show.
Thank you for having us.
Yeah, we're so excited.
Today, we're talking about Asian creatives
in storytelling, and how personal experiences
can show up in all parts of the creative process.
So to kick things off, maybe I could hear from each of you
on what it was like to work on "Raya and the Last Dragon"?
It was super exciting for me to work
on "Raya and the Last Dragon," because when
I heard that Disney was making a movie inspired
by Southeast Asian cultures, and a fantasy movie no less,
I was like, I have to be a part of that.
First of all, I love fantasy, and also, as an Asian American,
I thought, like what a wonderful thing to be a part of creating
something that maybe I would have liked
to watch when I was a kid.
It was really special to be able to help
bring that movie to life.
It's an incredible opportunity to be a part of this film
and be able to bring the culture I grew
up in onto the big screen in the way
that I just never see before.
To have so many other Asians in the room.
We were able to have these sessions where we invited
people within Disney Animation to come having a conversation
with the creative leads team.
And I remember I was like, I'm gonna board
a scene where people just eat.
And I'm looking for ideas.
Just tell me however your tradition is,
and these are a group of people who
are not from Southeast Asia.
And then I found that there were so many different aspects.
We were just vibing really hard in that room.
Things that I didn't think that we would have
so much commonality, and that gave me
comfort of making this film that represents so many
cultures within Southeast Asia.
But there is a way to really shine a light on what
we can celebrate together.
Yes.
What we have in common.
What unites us.
FAWN VEERASUNTHORN: And to me, it's a personal journey also
to find my voice speaking up not just
for me, but also for others.
And it definitely translated because I think so many people
saw themselves in it.
Even those who are not Asian American.
I mean, you brought the voice literally to life,
so what was that like for you?
Oh my goodness.
Totally otherworldly.
I think it still doesn't really make sense to me.
I have pictures of myself in princess dresses and things,
so it's very weird to say that I got to be part of something
that was so special.
And not just something that's part of Disney Animation,
but something culturally specific.
And just listening to Carrie and Fawn is just really hits me.
We're so lucky that we found Kelly! Talking
about culturally specific.
I remember when you came in to read the line, and at the time,
we used the term "thoi."
That was in the film like queen, and they'll throw in there.
The way you pronounced it.
I was like--
She's the one.
She gets it.
It's gonna be OK.
We found our Raya.
I was raised in San Diego by my lovely parents,
who are both Vietnamese refugees from the Vietnam War.
I have two sisters, and we grew up in a really moderate
home, very working class.
And I am ever grateful to the world
that I grew up in because I think that despite having
some things I've had to overcome,
the overwhelming thing is that I am so grateful to be here
knowing how hard I had to work.
But also how hard the generations before me
had to work to give me the opportunity just to dream.
My parents never got the opportunity to dream,
and I think that that is something
that I hold with myself closely all the time,
especially on hard days.
I identify as solidly Asian American
because I was born here.
I grew up here, and I feel like when I was younger,
part of my experience in this country
was always just trying to assimilate and become
a little more American.
I would go to Chinese school, but I'd
rather be playing video games.
I would have Chinese food lunches,
but I'd rather have sandwiches and chips.
As I've gotten older, I want to embrace my heritage more.
And my parents come from Taiwan, so I'm super proudly Taiwanese.
I love that.
I was born and raised in Thailand,
so I identify as a Thai person.
I feel like there's no other choice out there.
I was part of the generation where there's
a lot of new ideas and globalization
that flooded the country, so I feel like between my generation
and my parents, there was a lot of conflicts between each other.
And I was trying to search for who I am,
what my voice is,
and that is viewed as being disruptive.
I feel like I'm still dealing with this now,
working in the industry where you need to speak up and be
part of the conversation.
Yeah, I think that's a lifelong journey for all of us,
but is that something that resonates for you?
I kind of saw you nodding, and--
Well, I will tell you that I identify as Asian American,
specifically Vietnamese American.
To recognize that you deserve to be in a room.
was and is such a constant journey for me.
Oh, yeah.
Oh yeah, because I do think there's a lot of being so
grateful to be in the room, - (GROANS)
- that you then can't really be present to the fact that you
bring something to the table.
Toxic, toxic.
Yes. I can talk about that all day.
Well, talk to us about it because I do
think it's part of the way your relationship
to culture evolves over time.
So have you similarly found that the more confident
you were in your cultural identity,
the easier it was to defend yourself?
Or was it, like, completely different for you?
That's a very good question.
This one's a thinker.
Yeah, I know.
I'm like, give me five.
Just stop here.
Give me five minutes.
I think that's true.
The idea that having community sort of takes away the isolation
of feeling those things, because it can be so maddening to be
sitting in a room and being like,
I'm the only one who feels uncomfortable here.
I don't know why.
I must be crazy.
Having a community and building that confidence
has definitely put me in a place where now, I
feel very comfortable talking about things
that I think I maybe wouldn't have
spoken about before because of the whole idea of being
grateful.
I think that sometimes, there's this culture of using gratitude
to silence people, which is just as dangerous as so
many other things.
It's complicated and nuanced.
I feel like growing up, I was always just fulfilling
a specific role, and then once you enter creative spaces where
you get to work with other people,
there's an expectation that you're part of that culture,
so you must know, right?
You can't be wrong about certain things,
and internally, I'm like, I can very
much be wrong about certain things
because I'm still learning.
I'm still trying to, in a sense, reclaim my culture.
It's just a journey to find how do I
fit into there as an Asian American who grew
up in two different cultures?
Ugh, I mean, you brought up so many good points,
and I feel like we could unpack this for days,
but I think what really stuck is the pressure. When you are
speaking for a community that is so underrepresented,
it's like you want to get everything right.
And you want to give characters permission
to be a little messy, to have their own growth
that they need.
That's something that I fell in love with with "Raya
and the Last Dragon."
It's like the protagonist is someone you really believe in,
but also, the antagonist, you're like,
I can't fully root for your downfall.
The gift that we have on "Raya" is that we
just have so many characters.
Raya, Sisu, Namaari, even Virana,
who can really dive back into like, who are these ladies?
And what are their issues?
And how are they different?
And how are they flawed?
And that was the part that, I think,
it's important to everyone involved in this project
that we just want to see who we are.
Not how we are perceived by other people.
And we're here now, and we get to dive into the story room.
And I love your contribution to this character.
I'm like, let's go.
BREA BAKER: Kelly, I'mma throw this one at you, then.
What were some of the things that were most important to you
when you voiced Raya?
And what excited you most about being a part
of her character development?
I think the thing that excited me the most
was just how authentic she felt to me as a character.
As someone who, as a young girl, had this very sort of idealized
way of looking at the world, and then
this terrible thing happens to her.
And then we jump to her a little bit older,
and we see the way that her perception has changed
because of those events.
In the past, a lot of films in this specific genre,
a lot of the characters like, seemingly
have this, like, overwhelmingly positive outlook on life.
Super optimistic.
Almost naive.
Yeah, and Raya had this very realistic
way of looking at the world where she's like, "Listen.
There are people out there who are coming to get you."
I think the evolution of a person who has that perspective,
and then by the end of the film, sort of becomes someone who
recognizes that even though there are dangers,
and there are certain reasons and places where you shouldn't
trust other people, there is still this idea
that is worth fighting for.
And that is almost bigger than yourself.
And how much better can the world
be if we all just, for a second, step outside of ourselves
and look at the bigger picture?
I think, for me, that was the most profound and moving
part of the whole experience.
Even hearing you break it down in that way, I'm like,
I want to rewatch it.
Carrie, what about you?
What did you connect most with in the film?
Yeah, similar with the idea of trust
and the idea of resiliency.
And the ways that we can uplift each other versus thinking
that you're alone on a journey.
That felt extremely relatable to me.
Well, the Asian continent represents
48 countries and accounts for over 60%
of the world's population.
And yet, in America, Asian Americans are
lumped into a single category.
Even though we account for such a large population,
it becomes almost an insular experience
to be Asian American.
Working on "Raya and the Last Dragon"
was hugely important for me because on screen, you
see so many different peoples and so many different tribes
represented, each with their own unique characteristics,
and unique customs, and unique personalities.
The characters are a reminder that Asians are not a monolith,
and we have so many stories.
And that these stories deserve a platform to be seen and heard.
Kelly, when did you start finding your unique voice
as an Asian American woman?
Oh my gosh.
Hard one, huh?
That is a really hard question.
I think I'm still finding my voice.
For me, coming into the world of entertainment
at all was such a huge upheaval of my perceptions of reality.
I don't want to speak for all Asian Americans.
But I will say specifically in my family,
I grew up with parents who, because of the world
they came from, and because they were worried about putting food
on the table, they never had the ability
to think what they would do if they were thinking
about self-fulfillment.
That's at the top of Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
We were thinking about food, safety, all of these things
that you have to get to before you can think of other things.
So it took me a really long time to just believe that I could do
the things that I am doing now.
If that makes sense?
No, that makes a lot of sense, and you brought this
up in the context of community.
But yeah, was that similar for you in finding your voice?
That was just so connecting towards you.
Like, to the core, and we talked about this
before too, like, how do you pursue your own passion
when your family's all about, we're getting you here?
It's hard to get-- to even get you here.
At times, it feels like a selfish pursuit
of trying to find your voice, and write, or create,
and stuff like that.
Back when I was-- when I met Carrie.
At one of my jobs, and I was just--
have been working in animation for a while,
and it was all about this is a job.
And I get the script.
I draw it, and I just put my head down, and focus,
and don't cause any trouble.
And around that time, about 2009,
I started writing comics online just randomly.
Usually just to complain about what is hard about life.
Very relatable.
I was just thinking that.
Because the struggles.
I just want to throw the struggles out there,
and I found that people were connecting to those struggles.
And I was like, oh.
And I'm presenting the struggles in a comedic, funny way
because what other way, right?
Otherwise, it would just be sad.
There is a part of me that got me interested in art
in the first place, but I was just trying
to equate art into a job.
I can support myself, so parents, please
don't be worried.
Yeah, yeah.
I totally feel that.
I grew up in Thailand, and then I moved to the United
States when I was 19.
I felt like I don't look like anybody else.
I don't sound like anyone else, and I just
wanted to hide part of myself away a little bit
in order to fit in.
But what I found was that there was so
many elements of all of us that we were more
alike than we thought we were.
And that's when I really feel like I open up to my friends,
and bring my perspective to them, and be able to share.
And know that I will be accepted just as a full self
and not just a part of Fawn which is curated
for the American audience.
Stepping into your power, I think,
the difficult piece about it is it continues to get harder.
What were some of those stereotypes or situations
that you had to overcome as Asian American women?
I think it is sort of a, like, all-encompassing issue.
It's not just that people have their own stereotypes,
but it's also the world that I grew up in,
and the things that I ingested.
And the things that I believe about myself,
which is so messed up.
And one of those things was just the idea
of asking for what I need, somehow,
in the beginning, felt like a burden.
Because I grew up in a culture where I wasn't supposed
to ask for things, or I wasn't supposed
to make trouble for anyone.
And that's how those things were sort of defined for me.
It continues to be a journey for me of, on the one end,
recognizing that people are going to have some perceptions
of the type of person I am because of the culture
I grew up in, or the way I look.
But also that I have to unlearn some of the things
that I learned by watching TV as a child,
and then seeing the things that people would say about someone
who looked like me.
Yeah, it's sort of multifaceted.
Oh, definitely multifaceted.
I've seen lots of things and information and stuff.
In a way, there are those stereotypes to overcome,
but it's also overcoming them within myself.
Because I feel like I really just absorb that.
It was like some weird Stockholm syndrome stuff.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
It's deep.
Yeah, so deep.
BREA BAKER: So even though we know that Raya's world is
fictional, the themes that you all are bringing up
are very real.
What legacy do you hope "Raya and the Last Dragon"
will leave behind?
I want to focus on the ending and how
hard-fought that moment was.
Because she has to learn that the main decisions
of this movie is in the hand of the others,
and we have never done that before.
And there were so many conversations and people
not understanding that because they're used to the hero
to be the one that did the thing and then resolve everything.
Yet Raya chose to trust Namaari.
That is something that is super Asian to me.
When I hear that moment, I'm like, yes.
Let's do this.
And when I hear there are doubts about this moment,
I'm like, let's talk about it.
How do we take the audience and our team
there together to that journey
that even if you don't feel that you're ready to trust yet,
you just have to take the first step,
and know that it will be worth it?
That you can lean on your community,
that you don't have to do it yourself?
I've had experiences in the past
where I feel like I've questioned myself,
and I have always found that community
has helped me recognize that I'm never alone in those feelings.
And I think that Raya does a really good job of conveying
how healing that can be.
To find spaces where you don't have to explain yourself,
and you can just be.
And together, you can fight for something
bigger than yourselves.
I think that is something that I want to keep with myself.
Yeah.
I love that.
Goodness.
Carrie, what about you?
I feel like I don't want to keep stealing from Fawn and Kelly.
But yeah, the idea of--
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
It's like, if it works, it works.
But yeah, the idea of community and collective
was a huge takeaway for me because, I think, especially
in this day and age, there have been a lot of things
going on in the world.
Like attacks on AAPI and just living through that in a time
also where it's arguably maybe the most
open time for Asians and Asian Americans
to tell their stories.
That it's an interesting contrast,
but just knowing that there's a community out there.
And that there is a power in coming together like that.
That's the legacy that I hope that this movie leaves.
Wow. Yeah.
I hope so, too.
It's wonderful that all of us can sit here and have
these conversations about the importance of representation,
but I think the goal at the end of the day--
I'm gonna to quote Daniel Dae Kim here,
who says this all the time.
Hopefully, our children, or the generations after us,
won't have to have these conversations.
Representation will be so equal across all gender identities,
and races, and religions, and abilities,
and so on and so forth, that we won't
have to be so precious about every single story
that we tell.
I love that so much because I feel that everyone
is so multifaceted.
You all have backstories that's unique to each person,
and Carrie can tell the fantasy story
she's been wanting to tell.
I would love for one day to have all that freedom
and see all the beautiful stories.
Yeah.
Like you said, we don't have to get as precious anymore,
and we can just be a little real.
We can be flawed representatives because that's
relatable in its own way.
I love the idea of the flawed representatives.
I especially love the idea of more fantasy.
I think that would be so beautiful to see,
so I hope we have you back on the couch at some point telling
us about this spanking- new project that
is gonna be so fantastical and out of this world.
This has been such an incredible conversation.
Thank you three so, so, so, so much
for sitting down and talking with me
about the importance of multicultural representation.
Thank you.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
--a pleasure.
BREA BAKER: Be sure to watch "Raya and the Last Dragon"
now streaming on Disney+, and subscribe
to the Disney+ YouTube channel
for future conversations.
Happy Asian American Native Hawaiian Pacific
Islander Heritage Month, and we'll see you next time.
[CALMING MUSIC]