CINAR: Rick has been doing this for a long time, but I think at that period when Occupy happened
he really had a platform to really talk about the democratic ownership of production, you know,
worker cooperatives. And I think it really resonated with a lot of people. It resonated
with me a lot hearing that message. And primarily around the... in a way of... You know, you guys
had mentioned really conveying the message about what actually socialism is at its very core,
right? It's the workers owning the means of production, and democratically owning that
and making decisions around that. And so bringing that back to its real essence, and reclaiming it,
and explaining it in a way that could be much more accessible to a broader audience made it extremely
compelling to me. Because I think a lot of the movements, leftist movements, which I've been
part of for a long part of my life and activism, there was a lot of obfuscation around ideology,
where you really didn't know where things stood at the end of the day. But I think what Rick
and Democracy at Work has done really, really, well is really communicate something that is so
essential to all of us: work. Right? I mean, we spend the majority of our lives at work right, and
you know we go to a place that's autocratic, we don't have a say in the decision making, and what
we're going to produce, how we're going to produce it, what we're going to do with the profits.
And you know, there's no democratic control of it. So I think that's an extremely--
And the way it's worded, I think what Democracy at Work benefited from was a lot of that, you know
"99%", the slogans from the from the Occupy movement. "Democracy at Work" itself is extremely
compelling. And it's something that resonates with everybody at the end of the day, because
they realize, "Wait a minute, you're right! We have democracy here and there and supposedly in
the political system, but when it comes to work we give that up!" So that kind of conversation
wasn't part of the left for a long time. It hasn't been part of the left for a long time.
And really bringing that back to that movement, I think, was extremely compelling.
And then Democracy at Work itself as a group has been really, I think,
influential in furthering this conversation about what we mean by 21st century socialism. You know,
a socialism based on worker cooperatives and a political system that kind of reinforces that
and recreates it. But I think that's been very compelling. So you know it's been great, and it's
been exciting to be part of a bigger movement about what an alternative system could become.
And really reclaiming that conversation and really using that as kind of a road map for something
new, for systems change, is pretty exciting. KEVIN: So in in the, we got like 30 seconds
answer to this next one. We're at the 10-year mark of Democracy at Work now.
Quick lightning round, where do you think we'll be in 10 years from now? What do you hope or what do
you expect to see in the next 10 years? Larry? LARRY: Well, it's ties in with--
So, we got to fight the right. And if we can you know-- Because we're really getting
close to a fascist type situation. And our perspective could be a key part of that battle.
And I think this country, and with the effort of socialists and progressives, is going to
win that battle. And then we just need to take advantage of that and move forward after that.
CINAR: Really well said. LARRY: And the victory is not going to be a single
point of victory either. It's going to be, there's going to be continual mop-up operations, but
that battle has to be won. Not sure what role our particular podcast can play, but once
that battle is won or is turning I think what we're doing will spread, and we'll be
even more effective. That's my vision. CINAR: Right. Really well said. Yeah,
changing the conversation and providing an alternative. I mean, that's exactly the goal.
KEVIN: There's no reason to think that, just like in the last 10 years,
in the next 10 years there won't be at least one big crisis, and probably a number of big crises.
The system has lasted a lot longer than our dear friend Marx likely thought it was going to last,
but it is not a system that will last forever. LARRY: No.
KEVIN: And it may be somewhat wishful thinking to think that the death throes that we see it in may
come to a head in the next 10 years, but I think that we'll be well on that way. And I take Larry's
point that the question that we've talked at many times in terms of how this turn will [happen],
what the turn will be, there will be a turn. And the question is where is it going to be.
And I think our role is to make sure that, just as you said, we provide the argument, the examples,
the perspective that is able to fight against the nihilists, the fascists, the fatalists,
and that we arm those that are on the right side of history with the means to be able to say
"this is what the future could look like, should look like,
and this is how we can get there." I think that's that's what I see for the next 10 years.
LARRY: It's a good goal. KEVIN: And I think we're. in the
right position to be able to do what it is that we can with the podcast. and I think that we are
all the kind of people too that we can do a lot of talking and we can do a lot of other things.
CINAR: Let's make it happen guys! LARRY: Alrighty.
KEVIN: All right, you guys. Well, we're years in, we'll be years out,
and I can't wait to keep doing it with you guys CINAR: Same here, man.