Hello and welcome to Stumped, your intercontinental hit of news, features, and debate from the
quirky world of cricket. I'm Charu Sharma for All India Radio once again at home in
Bangalore, where we are still confused about this whole new Covid variant. We've got a
curfew to 10pm every night on the weekdays and the weekends are all locked out. So well,
not happy going still, and not happy with the Indian team either, what with this churn
at the top and they've just forgotten how to win in South Africa. Nice to have you doing
the show there, Charu. It's Jim Maxwell in Sydney. And you can't really tell when someone's
tested positive for Covid, but I have and I'm feeling fine. So, I hope that the show
continues without there being too many hiccups. Unlike the English team, which have
had the most massive hiccup, and hopefully the women can save them from the humiliation
that they suffered at the hands of Australia in the last six weeks. Hi Jim, Charu. Thank you very much for having me.
I'm Nikesh Rughani, and I'm in Leicester, in the heart of England
and both of you guys have mentioned India and England there. As a British Indian, I'm
just about getting my sleep patterns back in order after the men's Ashes and the India
vs. South Africa Test series and as I say, as a British Indian, watching England get
thumped down under and watching India lose the series in South Africa. I'm not in a good
place at the moment, but apart from that, all good. Well, thanks for joining us, Nikesh.
Good to have you - big shoes to fill, of course - but happy to have your thoughts. But let's
start this week with the big news from India. So Virat Kohli has stepped down as the Test
captain of India, not without distinguishing himself though because he played 68 Test matches
as captain and won 40 of them, giving him the winningest ever win percentage in Indian
Test cricket history. And of course, that makes him the fourth winningest captain in
the history of Test cricket itself. Fabulous record. Why did he leave? We'll get to hear
more of that. Now in the statement on social media, he said: "It's been seven years of hard
work, toil and relentless perseverance every day to take the team in the right direction.
Everything has to come to a halt at some time. I have always believed in giving 120 percent,
and if I can't do that, I know it's not the right thing to do. I cannot be dishonest
to my team." So, an outpouring of some emotion there by
the Indian captain. Jim, Nikesh, we will discuss our reactions to the news shortly, but first
let's go to Kolkata where a good friend of mine is joining us; the former Test cricketer,
and now national selector and, of course, the President, let's not forget, of the Indian
Cricketers Association, Ashok Malhotra. Ashok, thanks so much for joining us.
What is your reaction to Kohli stepping down? And do you think that all things considered
it was the right decision at the right time? I think Kohli has been simmering. He has been
absent. He is angry, and he has been simmering since he has been removed as ODI captain.
He has been very, very upset because he wanted to captain the ODI and Test sides. So once
he was removed as ODI captain, and afterwards he probably gave a press statement or press
interview, where he contradicted the BCCI president and former Test captain, so he knew
his days are numbered. So, I would honestly believe that he jumped before he was pushed.
That is my thinking because we know his Test record as a captain is unbelievable. His Test
averages... he's a legendary batsman of Indian cricket and all-in-all, a wonderful ambassador
of the game. Believe you me whatever cricket will be seen after him, especially in the ODI's, that aggression,
that positive intent and the body language of the team is not the same. So he will be missed, but the fact is somewhere
along the line, I believe he is still upset. He is angry. Somebody has to put a hand around
his shoulder and tell him to calm down. We need you. India needs you. Indian cricket needs you.
Ashok, many people probably agree with you in that he seems to have left before somebody
pushed him out, like he was pushed out of the ODI captaincy. But and that was to be
my next question, but I'll skip forward to what about the whole process of communication,
because he claimed, of course, that the board didn't quite communicate with him. He just
sort of put out the media there an hour and a half or was a day and a half before they're
supposed to go to South Africa. And why is it so difficult for the Indian captain, the
chief of the Cricket Board and perhaps selectors to just have a chat about you know, how should
we take this whole thing forward? Surely, he is one of the biggest constituents of the game at this point of time in India?
You're spot on, Charu, but the fact is, we don't know what happened behind the scenes. We really don't know whether he
was asked to quit the T20 captaincy, or was he told not to quit the T20 captaincy? Now, it is
his word against the board President, who incidentally is another legendary captain
of the Indian team. And now with the chief of selectors chipping in, I don't know whether
he wanted to say things, or he was told to say things. We would not know, but the fact
is, things are not hunky dory between Virat and the BCCI. We all know that the BCCI is an
all-powerful body, but they never like somebody who gets sometimes bigger than the BCCI.
That is really a fact, and Virat was calling the shots. You know, I know he's very hurt now
and treated very shabbily, but he didn't treat Anil Kumble nicely, so it goes around.
Somewhere along the line I know he's very upset, because he thought he is all powerful,
but he is not because captains come, and captains go. Players come and players go but BCCI remains
there. So, he learned the hard way, if I may say, but the fact is, he is still hurt,
he's still simmering and he is still very angry. Although he's not saying it, but his body
language is saying it all, even in the huddle he is not in the middle of it. He is outside
the huddle, and I don't think he has been of any help to KL Rahul in the way MS Dhoni was to Virat Kohli.
Well, that's a shame and I'm also disappointed because when Sourav Ganguly
was captain, he was certainly seeking better relationships with the board at that
point of time. And for him now to go back to what you suggest are the ways of the board,
that is touch disappointing. I'm sure you are in touch with lots of other players. What
is the general thought among the Indian cricket players or the former players that you may be in touch with?
See everybody's upset the way it has been [handled], you know, the whole
melodrama the way it appeared, because it could have been handled much better. You know,
we understand because probably both didn't want him to be the ODI captain. They
didn't want two white ball captains, but the moment he resigned as T20 captain, he sounded
his death knell as a skipper. So, I think he knew the writing was on the wall and
ODI captains and he was removed, all of us Charu, including you, you have been in the
media, you know, everybody knew that he was going to be sacked as ODI captain, except
for Virat, who refused to read the writing. Everybody else could read the writing on the
wall. And this time what he has done is he has probably, you know, he before he could
be sacked, he has resigned. As I'm saying again and again, he is very upset. Most of
the guys, most of the cricketers around the country are of the opinion that you know,
some of them say probably he was too high handed. Somebody say he's probably missing Ravi Shastri,
so we will not know, but the fact is, it could have been handled in a much,
much better way. The only problem is with Virat going now, I know the entire thinking,
entire body language, entire mental state of the team has totally changed, because we
have got two gentlemen, who are leading the team after Virat - both Rahul's - and for me believe
you me Charu, gentlemen, either they're dead or they don't play cricket.
Ashok, It's Jim Maxwell, from Sydney. And I'm not surprised to hear self-interest is always the favourite, and
when you've got big personalities, you're going to have leadership crises. The crisis
you might get out of this is that Kohli says: 'I've had enough in another year's time, and
I'm not going to play anymore.' Are you concerned about his future in the Indian team as a result
of all this dispute between number one player and the BCCI?
I would say so. If I would be in the board president's place, I would put my hand around
his shoulder and tell him to calm down, because the Indian cricket team and Indian cricket
needs Virat Kohli. He has a good three or four years still in him where his best years
are just before him. So, the way he is upset, he is the guy with a great ego. Indian
cricketers, they're larger than life. They are got huge egos, and when you do something
like that, then they can do anything. I hope he does not do that for the sake of Indian
cricket and for his own sake. He does not do that because the way he's left his captaincy,
anything is possible. The way he played the last ODI because he's such a good player,
he can score 50s in his sleep, you know, he's such a good player. He's a legendary batter,
but the way he went around because the running between the wickets, turning one into twos,
twos into threes, that aggression was totally missing. And his body language says that he
is not in the thick of things as of now. Even in the huddle they had, he was not inside
the huddle, he was outside the huddle. So, that showed that he's still very upset. And
what you said, you have a point we might see that happening. I hope not. But I pray not. But it can happen.
Because he hasn't scored in international century for two years. I
mean, have we seen the best of him? What's the legacy from here for what he has achieved
for India and then carry on it's kind of take place from this point because it looks a bit
50/50 as to what he will contribute by his influences: A batsman and leadership force of some sort?
See as a batsman, he still might deliver but if you talk about being in the
leadership group, I doubt it because I've only seen one ODI where his body language
is totally different. He's not a part of the think tank, he is not coming and suggesting
anything to KL Rahul because he's left KL Rahul on his own, you know, so I don't know.
And when you talk about his legacy, we all thought he would reach Sachin Tendulkar's
100 100's the way he was going, but as you said two years without 100 which is unimaginable,
to say the least, and definitely the pressure is mounting on him. Even when he scored the
50, it's a failure for somebody of the stature of Virat Kohli so I think we might still see
him but maybe at his best I would not know. Or maybe if sometimes maybe somebody like
MS Dhoni wraps his arm around him and tells him: "Hey, come on. You will get on with the
game. You are too good a player to you know get messed with the BCCI and lose your place,
lose your batting and everything." I think the only guy who can bail him out and bail
Indian cricket out, bail Virat Kohli out is MS Dohni. Ashok, it's Nikesh here. Of course
we talk about the no century in two years but lots of great moments as a skipper during
that time, particularly in Test cricket as well. For you what is your one standout memory
or one standout moment from Virat Kohli the leader?
See Virat Kohli. He's a leader, you know, and what stands out is the way he took on
the office when he took on the captaincy after MS Dohni resigned, he got back-to-back 200s,
and we were chasing 340-350, and he kept going and he is started that legacy that we're going
to win, we are aggressive, we are positive. He has a little bit of an Aussie mentality,
if I will say, in a way we've never seen that kind of a thing. That rubbed off on
everybody and the fitness levels. You know, if you look at this team, they are the fittest
team ever who's ever played for India. And that is the legacy of Virat Kohli, because
he himself became so fit, he led from the front and the number of matches he won as
a captain. He made us believe, plus playing those four fast bowlers on foreign lands and
making India believe - the entire India, the billions of people - that we can beat anybody
in the world outside India, because India was supposed to be the winners in India, but
outside we were sitting ducks. He turned everything around, and it is thanks to him. If Sourav told
us how to look into the eye of the foreigners and fight with them, stand up to them, then
Virat told us how to win. He started this legacy and led from the front with his aggressive
approach, positive approach and which rubbed off on everybody; not only the 15 who are
playing, but even the pipeline which we have; the people are sitting on the bench,
they come and immediately perform at top level. It is thanks to Virat Kohli.
It's interesting you say there I was just going to touch on that as well, the similarities
between himself and Sourav Ganguli, the captain, as well. Lots of aggression. There's lots
of similarities in the way they went about things and differences as well and as you
say, Kohli has taken that to another level. So, massive shoes to fill for anybody coming
in next. We've seen the white-ball team has been handed over to Rohit Sharma, he will
lead the white-ball teams for the foreseeable future when he's fit again. In terms of the
Test captaincy, would that be Rohit again? Is he too old? If not him, who will replace Virat Kohli?
I would say Rohit Sharma is an obvious choice. He is another one who demands
respect, commands respect and he also leads from the front. He's calm and composed. Maybe
he's not an aggressor, but he has his own kind of aggression. I would not like KL Rahul
to take on the captaincy yet because he's too nice a guy and whatever little that we
have seen in Test cricket and one day cricket, you know he had gone missing during the match.
I would expect him to you know, be I heard that somebody said Rishabh Pant. I think somebody
said Rishabh Pant to improve his batting. I never heard anything
like this before that you make somebody captain to improve his batting. Let Rishabh Pant find
his own feet. Rishabh Pant cannot play one knock and then disappear for
15-20 matches and then come back and play one more blinder. So somewhere along the line,
you only obvious choice as of now, maybe for a short term - for a year or two years -
has to be Rohit Sharma. Well, thanks Ashok. Of course, tough times for India's former
captain because no longer is he in the seat. And if he's under the watchful eyes of the
microscope and the selectors then just more pressure on him. Well, I hope he does continue
playing for India. Ashok, thanks so much for joining us and Stumped.
Thank you.
That's all we got time for on this week's Stumped on All India Radio. Don't forget you can follow us on Twitter.
We're @BBCWSSport and of course use #BBCStumped and check us out on YouTube as well. Go to BBC World Service
YouTube. My thanks to Jim Maxwell, to Nikesh Rughani; thanks for joining us this week. And of course,
to all of you for listening. Speak to you next week. Until then, goodbye.