( APPLAUSE )
EVERYBODY.
THANK YOU, MARK.
THAT ONE?
THIS ONE RIGHT HERE?
WELCOME BACK, FOLKS.
MY GUEST TONIGHT IS A FILMMAKER AND AUTHOR YOU KNOW FROM MOVIES
LIKE "AGUIRRE, THE WRATH OF GOD," "FITZCARRALDO," AND
"GRIZZLY MAN."
HE HAS JUST WRITTEN HIS FIRST NOVEL, "THE TWILIGHT WORLD."
PLEASE WELCOME TO "THE LATE SHOW," WERNER HERZOG!
♪ ♪ ♪
>> Stephen: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
>> A JOY TO BE BACK.
>> Stephen: IT HAS BEEN 11 YEARS SINCE I'VE INTERVIEWED
YOU.
THE FIRST TIME I INTERVIEWED YOU WAS ON THE "COLBERT REPORT."
AND I WAS IN CHARACTER THERE.
WE TALKED ABOUT "CAVE OF FORGOTTEN DREAMS, RADIOACTIVE
ALBINO ALLIGATORS AND EVERYTHING.
>> MUTANTS.
>> Stephen: MUTANTS, EXACTLY.
I HAVEN'T SEEN YOU SINCE, BUT I'M SO GLAD TO TALK TO YOU OUT
OF CHARACTER.
HERE'S THE THING-- YOU HAVE BECOME TO THE PUBLIC AT LARGE
SOMETHING OF A CHARACTER YOURSELF.
THERE IS THE CHARACTER OF WERNER HERZOG.
WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU REPRESENT TO PEOPLE?
>> WELL, IT'S A DANGEROUS SUBJECT, BECAUSE IT'S JUST ME
AND NOTHING ELSE.
AND I TRY TO STAY AWAY FROM CATEGORIZATION AND PLAYING
ROLES.
ALTHOUGH, WE SHOULD NOT FORGET THAT ALL OF US ARE IN SOME SORT
OF THEATER THAT WE CREATE FOR OURSELVES, AND WE BEHAVE AND WE
ARE PERFORMING WHEN YOU ARE IN CHURCH, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU ARE
PERFORMATIVE.
WHEN YOU YOU ARE BEST MAN IN A WEDDING, YOU'RE PERFORMATIVE.
WHEN YOU TALK TO YOUR CHILDREN.
SO WE HAVE SETTLED IN, IN SOME SORT OF A PERFORMATIVE LIFE.
>> Stephen: THAT IS THE WERNER HERZOG STUFF I'M TALKING ABOUT
RIGHT THERE.
THAT IS PURE UNCUT HERZOG.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU'VE BEEN PRODUCING LATELY IS A NEW
BOOK.
THIS IS YOUR FIRST NOVEL.
IT'S CALLED "THE TWILIGHT WORLD."
AND THIS IS FASCINATING TO ME BECAUSE IT IS ABOUT HIROO ONODA,
WHO-- FOR THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW, EXPLAIN TO THE PEOPLE WHO
HIROO ONODA WAS.
>> HE WAS THE LAST JAPANESE SOLDIER WHO SURRENDERED AFTER
THE END OF THE SECOND WORLD WAR.
BUT IT WAS 29 YEARS AFTER THE WAR HAD ENDED.
HE WAS ON THE PHILIPPINE ISLAND, LEFT ALONE, AND HE HAD ORDERS,
KEEP THE ISLAND OCCUPIED UNTIL THE IMPERIAL ARMY RETURNS.
SO HE STAYED IN THE JUNGLE, AND HE WOULD HAVE SKIRMISHES AND HAD
SURVIVED AMBUSHES.
AND HE TOOK EVERY LITTLE PIECE AS EVERYTHING THAT HE FOUND,
THAT THE WAR WAS STILL GOING ON.
>> Stephen: FOR 29 YEARS?
WHAT EVIDENCE?
>> FOR EXAMPLE, LEAFLETS WERE THROWN DOWN FROM PLANES, ASKING
HIM TO SURRENDER.
AND SOME OF THE JAPANESE CHARACTERS WERE MISSPELLED.
SO HE KNEW IMMEDIATELY THAT MUST HAVE BEEN THE ENEMY'S SECRET
SERVICE, THE AMERICAN SECRET SERVICE DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO
SPELL CORRECTLY.
THEN HE WOULD SEE HUNDREDS OF AIRPLANES, WARPLANES GOING
OVERHEAD AND MOVING WEST.
BUT IT WAS ALREADY THE NEXT WAR, THAT WAS THE KOREAN WAR.
THEN YEARS LATER, B-52 BOMBERS, AIRCRAFT CARRIERS AND
BATTLESHIPS, ALL PASSING BY GOING WEST.
THAT IS YET THE NEXT WAR.
THAT WAS THE VIETNAM WAR FOR EIGHT OR NINE YEARS HE SEES
THAT.
AND HE WAS HUNTED.
HIS LAST TWO COMRADES WERE SHOT DEAD IN AMBUSHES.
AND HE SURVIVED 111 AMBUSHES AND SKIRMISHES.
AND FINALLY SURRENDERED.
>> Stephen: NOW, HOW DID THEY FINALLY GET HIM TO SURRENDER?
>> WELL, A YOUNG MAN DROPPED OUT FROM UNIVERSITY HAD THREE GOALS
IN LIFE: HAVE A MEETING AND ENCOUNTER WITH THE ABOMINABLE
SNOWMAN, AND FIND THE PANDA BEAR IN CHINA IN ITS NATURAL HABITAT.
SO HE SETS OUT TO LUBANG ISLAND IN THE PHILIPPINES, AND WITHIN A
DAY, HE STUMBLES INTO HIM AND ALMOST SHOOT HIM DEAD.
THE JAPANESE GUY SHOUTS OUT, "NO, NO, I'M JAPANESE!
I'M JAPANESE!
AND I'M ONLY 22 YEARS OLD, AND NICE TO MEET YOU."
SO FOR AN ENTIRE NIGHT, HE TELLS ONODA WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE
LAST 29 YEARS, AND HE IS HALFWAY CONVINCED, AND HE SAYS, "WHY
DON'T YOU GO BACK TO TOKYO, BRING ONE OF MY FORMER
COMMANDING OFFICERS, AND ONLY IF I RECEIVE COMPETENT MILITARY
ORDERS, I'M GOING TO SURRENDER."
SO THREE WEEKS LATER, HIS FORMERLY MAJOR ARRIVES, 88 YEARS
OLD, AND TELLS HIM TO SURRENDER, AND HE DOES SO, THIS PHILIPPINE
HONOR GUARD STANDING AT ATTENTION AND HANDS OVER HIS
RIFLE HE HAS KEPT IMPECCABLY RUST FREE FOR 29 YEARS IN THE
JUNGLE, HANDS OVER HIS SWORD TO THE HIGHEST GENERAL OF THE
PHILIPPINE ARMY AND HE IMMEDIATELY HANDS IT BACK AND
SAYS, "THE TRUE SAMURAI KEEPS HIS SWORD."
SO IT WAS -- >> Stephen: WHAT WAS THE
REACTION BACK IN JAPAN?
( APPLAUSE )
TALKING ABOUT IT.
IT WAS AS IF FOR AN ENTIRE MINUTE THE HEARTS IN JAPAN STOOD
STILL WHEN IT WAS ANNOUNCED OVER THE RADIO, BECAUSE IT WAS KNOWN
ALL THE TIME THAT THEY WERE STILL SEARCHING FOR ONODA.
AND THE HEART STOPPED BEATING.
NOBODY TOOK A BREATH FOR 60 SECONDS.
AND THEN JAPAN CAME BACK AND THEY SALUTE-- THEY GREETED HIM
LIKE A GREAT ROCK STAR.
>> Stephen: NOW, IN MOST OF THE WORLD, PEOPLE SEE ONODA AS
MISGUIDED, SORT OF HAVING WASTED 29 YEARS, SORT OF A FOOLISH
FIGURE, IF ONE GUIDED BY ORDERS.
WHAT IS YOUR VIEW OF WHAT HE DID, THE DECISION HE MADE TO
KEEP FIGHTING?
>> WELL, HE-- THE ORDERS WERE "YOU HAVE TO SET YOUR OWN
RULES."
SO HE WAS NOT UNDER DIRECT ORDERS.
HE SETTLED INTO THE JUNGLE AND FOUGHT THE WAR WITHOUT ANY
COMMANDER AROUND ANYMORE.
AND, OF COURSE, IT'S TRAGIC BECAUSE IT WAS NOT FOOLISH.
IT WAS TRAGIC BECAUSE HE LIVED A LIFE, LIVED THE LIFE OF A
SOLDIER IN A FICTITIOUS WAR THAT WAS COMPLETE REALITY FOR HIM.
AND HE ORGANIZED EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF EVIDENCE AS IF IT WAS
ARTICLES OF FAITH.
SO ALMOST LIKE RELIGIOUS, STRANGE RELIGIOUS BELIEF SYSTEMS
ORIGINATE.
AND I AM ASKING MYSELF WHO WAS THE GHOST WRITER OF HIS ACTIONS?
WHO IS THE GHOST WRITER OF WHAT WE ARE DOING RIGHT HERE?
>> Stephen: IT'S THE SPONSORS, I THINK.
( LAUGHTER ) ( APPLAUSE )
>> YES.
>> Stephen: WE HAVE TO TAKE A QUICK BREAK.
BUT WHEN WE COME BACK, WE'LL HAVE MORE WERNER HERZOG,
EVERYBODY, STICK AROUND.
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