Film Courage: Can you give us examples of a show that you built off of a great
character and then one where you started off of a great premise?
Troy DeVolld, Producer/Author: I'll tell you my favorite from a character. There was a show
that Bravo ran for many years called Flipping Out. I loved that show and I was there from
the ground one of the first things I did on the show was I went out and we had lunch with Jeff
Lewis who was the star of that show, who is a really interesting guy who has actual OCD,
and that was kind of the thing was the show was about him and the people that worked for
him and how they deal with him having this very particular manner of doing things that is actually
a medically diagnosed thing and about how he tries to bring himself in but sometimes can’t.
I thought he was just such an interesting guy that when we did the pilot for the show there
were so many times we would turn in a cut of the show and the note would come back like the show is
called flipping out he's not flipping out enough and I was like he's such a real guy like how do we
how do we satisfy the network but we also you know treat him like a person
and there was one scene and I almost never fight anybody about content they were like they were
kind of like underwhelmed by it there was a scene at the end of the first episode where he goes to
see his therapist and the therapist folds this Navajo blanket up into a big square and puts it
over his face and says I want you to scream as loud as you can and he says I can't under the
blanket and I was just like my heart broke I was like I feel so bad for him that this is a real
thing that he has to deal with every day that he knows drives people to work with him nuts
but him just I can't like I thought that was like the most beautiful scene I ever had the
opportunity to cut it was nothing nothing that I asked for it was something that came back from
the field as part of them following him as part of his day and it just still to watch
that first episode I get choked up when I see that because I'm like this is a this is a real
person having a real life experience who is not being reduced to a cartoon character of
himself for the convenience of the storytellers and that show went on progressively you know
I got the feeling watching it in later seasons that there was a lot of playing things up for the
camera it might have been it might not have been it might have been just as genuine as it was when
I started on that show well we set that tone right and you really felt like you knew him as a person
you have empathy for him you start out sometimes where they you know the idea for the show is
oh here's this guy who's constantly flipping out and there's this push that you know you've got to
have your heroes and your villains so everybody gets crammed into this mold like don't forget
this person's the villain don't forget this is the good person who just has to suffer through
the villain and if you watch enough seasons of certain shows where it's just like oh well you
know Carol's just like that and this one character is just tearing into people unmotivated constantly
I always think like does she think that she's not going to end up in the show if she's not bombastic
enough because she thinks that's what reality shows are and that's the problem with reality
TV being everywhere now that it's just like they want these crazy nasty characters but you can't
understand why they are who they are like there's a bunch of backstory that you're not getting into
conversely I think they're characters who are entirely reliant on having had a backstory
it's very difficult doing a premise-based pilot for any show script or unscripted
I don't need to know where this person went to fifth grade I don't need to know that
they sneezed once with a mouth full of taco and embarrassed themselves in front of the classroom
but there are some people are like yeah we want to know the whole the whole deal like
what's what's with this person how did they meet their husband how did they do this and I'm like
I don't care what's happening right now like I can figure out who a person is in the moment
more easily than I can if you stop me down and go I'm going to tell you everything that's happened
in this person's life up until now I so slow total snails pace like you know they used to
live here but then they moved here and then they moved to this other place and that's where they
met this person who's in the show doesn't matter if they're arguing over a topping
on a pizza and they're married no I can meet them in the middle of that argument and figure
out who they are watching that argument happen that's super organic backstory is very inorganic
you're slowing the proceedings down by telling me everything about them before I start
how do you know when you have a great idea for me it's it's just when it tickles me when I laugh
when I am in the middle of watching something down and the people start to feel like people
there's a point where reality television the most important thing in what I do has always been it
has to feel authentic and the irony of saying this out loud you can fake authenticity to a degree
but when it's when it's the real deal and you're really invested in someone's success
that to me is like when I'm having fun and when I'm having fun I know the product is going to be
good because I feel like it'll catch on and whoever has to review that and sign off and
give notes hopefully we'll experience the same thing that I'm feeling organically watching it
what elements make a great idea the fact that when it's when it's salable and it fits in a box
even if it's even if it's its own box when people come to me and they're like I have an idea that
nobody's ever done before my initial reaction is like I know what this is going to taste like
like What's It Gonna What's it gonna be like when you know somebody else sees it and goes
well this doesn't fit our schedule or this isn't this isn't the flavor of programming
that we're looking for right now it's not it's not always completely about originality it's about
knowing that it fits somewhere and knowing that it'll resonate I especially like
things that are projects that I feel will resonate with fans of other shows that I
like if you did if I did a show right now that felt like the office I'd be thrilled
I often compare even unscripted shows like I'm trying to figure out what the what the brothers
and sisters of that show are like like unsung not unsung I'm sorry what was Unreal was the
show that they did about reality television and I could watch more than two episodes in a row
because I'd get sick to my stomach that it was like picking apart the kind of thing that I do
for a living but it was super engaging and they had the the producer that had kind of an over
to the top personality who was very interesting but was definitely like an alpha type guy you
had Executives that were on this fictional show that I would say oh that reminds me of so-and-so
oh no like that's like is this a straight parody of the show like it's it's too close
and I was in you know I got invested in that and I felt like this is a show that really Nails the
feeling of how I felt working on this other thing and if people love this thing they're going to
love this other show if I do if I do anything that feels like something else like that the clothing
show I was talking about earlier if it felt like as much fun as making it if it ever got made
I would not be surprised because the whole time I was writing up the deck to pitch that show I was
just laughing out loud I had people attached to that it was my my hosts if I pitched it I
always pitched with a host attached even if the production company says no we don't like that guy
and for me like I I had pitched it and I had Daniel Francis who was who played Damien in
Mean Girls attached as a host and Erica De La Cruz who is the publisher of La Girl Magazine
who was quite the Fashionista. I took her to the Emmys one year and she ended up in
some I think it was the Paris Vogue she had worn a yellow dress and they just she walked the carpet
talked about the designer and it's just like she at that time was not a huge celebrity but
she's so personable and so energetic and she's now got a social media following to beat. You
wouldn't believe how well she does on TikTok and I thought well you know if these two said yes and
they would do it I can go in and not only have a great idea but have it fairly well fleshed out so
that if somebody said yes I'd like make these two calls tomorrow and you've got your hosts and then
just let's get moving if it feels good enough that you can visualize it happening as opposed
to just feeling the sort of therapeutic wish of like oh I got something out of me
that's what you hoped for this is along the same lines but what can you do to test your idea
I used to say talk to talk to your friends in the industry
I don't necessarily recommend that anymore I've had a couple of couple of shows that I've
presented that felt eerily similar to things that my friends have created and I know it's incidental
and that ideas are everywhere and execution is a hundred percent of the deal but it still sort of
feels like I don't want to be too verbal about this because you can talk an idea away you can
lose your passion for something by repeating it to too many people so when you create something
be excited that you finished your screenplay be excited that you finished your pilot don't feel
like you have to show it to everybody you know and get that instant rush of oh they liked it too
because that doesn't help I mean they're not paying to read it you're not going to make a
living off of writing something and showing it to your friends write it if you're working with
a consultant show it to a consultant who has done it before and knows what they're doing and listen
to their feedback your friends don't know what works and what doesn't and what's of the moment
unless they're people who are working in that industry I appreciate you saying the part about
you know be cautious of who you show it to because I think there's like these two camps
there's those that think that oh nobody does this and then there's others that and then I think that
they're somewhere in the middle and and look Steve Jobs was paranoid for a reason you know they say
that he didn't want people to know certain things and and but you also can't you also can't work in
this business if you're paralyzed by the fear of someone stealing something that you've created
and ultimately if you've created something really good it should click so easily with people
that anybody in their right mind would go oh that is a great idea
but if they think oh that is a great idea and two years later they come up with something that's
almost the same thing because it's just in the back of their mind somewhere the few shows I've
had where I've pitched a show and then I see it on TV later I've never said that person stole
my idea I say oh maybe that was running around on the back of their head so it must have been
good and ultimately you just have to figure out a way to filter it and say well it is a
good idea and it lived so I feel validated that it happened whether I made a penny from it or not
do you like to start with great characters or a great premise always I always start from premise
and characters are almost easy because what I do when I when I write particularly the the fictional
the fiction efforts I've tried is when I write I can basically cannibalize the entirety of human
existence that I have filed in the back of my head do you remember your first grade teacher that had
that weird voice that always used to do this and had this quirky thing and only talked about this
that is a character that you can shove into a great idea and then it becomes easier for you
to write because you're basically pretending that these people are talking to each other
and then the dialogue feels natural the characters feel more fleshed out
that's the thing like that the I wrote a book called 100 poems About Los Angeles. Every single
poem in that book is based on a real interaction I've had. I had a homeless man practically
assault me in a sushi restaurant when I was in Hollywood that came in and he walked up to the
counter he goes I'm going to have this and that and the other and that guy's going to pay for it
and he looked at me like he was waiting for me to fight him and I said whatever and the guy like
was kind of put off and he's like I bet you feel really good about yourself
like I guess I do what's it to you and he was almost upset that I was enjoying
you know the interaction and that's one of my favorite pieces in the book
it's based on a real guy just like if I read a fictional thing he's actually he's actually
a character in The Pilot that I'm writing that's based on that book and what happened did he take
his food and go no he ended up coming over he sat down with me because I would not give him an inch
and I said you want to see that yeah he is I have a name and I said what's your name I'm Troy
I'm not going to tell you this whole thing I just hope this whole weird Kabuki that he had going on
in his head about he was going to show this guy by making some stranger pay for his dinner and it's
like I didn't care I'd rather you be eating that than walking down the street and spend
you know three dollars on something that's not nutritious and not good for you you know a nice
Sushi meal is always something that makes me feel good so enjoy it make yourself feel good.