now around the world tough measures are
being imposed Spain's too weak state of
emergency will mean strict restrictions
on movement France in Germany banned
mass gatherings last week
Italy remains in complete lockdown now
reporting 21,000 cases however Britain
is almost alone in not enacting any
extreme measures even as president Trump
has added us to the list of countries
now banned from traveling to America and
is considering all options when it comes
to domestic travel as well many
stevenson has our first report tonight
Europe now the epicenter of the corona
crisis the hospitals full the streets
empty drastic measures taken elsewhere
while in Britain life keeps carrying on
largely uninterrupted Boris Johnson's
words this week sobering many more
families are going to lose loved ones
before their time today the reality for
families losing people they love as NHS
England announced the number of deaths
in the UK had almost doubled twenty-one
patients diagnosed with the corona virus
have now died while inside North
Middlesex Hospital a baby believed to
become the world's youngest patient with
coronavirus within minutes of being born
testing positive the hospital later
confirming the newborn and their mother
both had the virus staff who treated
them are now self isolating we are
continually following following the
evidence of scientific advice and that's
has been that children seem to be less
at risk compared to you know older
people people underlying health
conditions but my thoughts are Hadley
completely with the family as the
coronavirus crisis intensifies this
morning a significant step for a
low-cost airline jet to cancelling all
flights to mainland Spain the Bali erics
and Canary Islands some planes were
grounded while passengers were on board
and ready to take off others turn back
to the UK mid-air the dramatic move came
as Spanish streets looked more like
ghost towns as they prepare for a
national lockdown here expected to be
told
to only leave the house for food or
medical supplies with more than 5,000
cases detected making it the second
worst affected country in Europe after
Italy in Rome they're rushing to build
new intensive care units in hospitals as
the country continues to live under
lockdown more than 21,000 people have
now been infected and over a thousand
have died an aging population and a
shortage of hospital beds have proven
fatal for Italy as Denmark Poland and
the Czech Republic shut their borders a
tough stance to in New Zealand where
everyone arriving in the country will be
asked to self isolate for 14 days
meanwhile in Washington Donald Trump
said the UK and Ireland would be added
to the list of countries included in the
u.s. travel ban as the president
admitted he to been tested for
coronavirus I had my temperature taken
coming into the room good that means
we're all looking good you also took I
also took the test and I decided I
should based on the press conference
yesterday people were asking that I take
the test I don't know whatever it takes
a day or two days whatever whatever it
is they send it to a lab while the
epidemic in China appears to be slowing
the spread of coronavirus has
accelerated in Europe just how to
contain the crisis now rests on the
shoulders of governments across the
world well here more questions are being
raised over the British government's
strategy with pressurizing from a number
of groups including some leading
scientists and school leaders for the UK
to be taking more drastic measures and
sooner yes Simon Brown a new day and the
pandemic continues to grow at an
alarming rate over 1,100 people infected
almost 40,000 people tested deaths have
nearly doubled in just a day amidst
growing lockdown and widespread testing
across the world Britain has been
criticised for not taking the same
action after early reluctance to take
drastic action next week the government
is expected to introduce new legislation
having
the limits on public gatherings life in
the UK as we know it is about to change
but if the government steps up its
efforts there are question marks over
how effectively it's learning some
approaches taken abroad and over the
implications of doing so this week
Channel 4 News reported on the Chinese
surveillance app credited with helping
to contain the world's biggest outbreak
of kovat 19 the app recalled the name
temperature's ID number and movements of
users and gives each one a color code it
uses big data to assess each user's risk
and check if citizens have come into
contact with those infected by the app
comes of controversy in China personal
data was reportedly shared with the
police and in South Korea there is also
huge privacy concerns over whether the
surrender a private data to the state is
a worthwhile trade to stop the outbreak
of a deadly virus and this is now the
question facing the UK now Channel 4
News has seen a paper by leading Oxford
academics presenting to launch a similar
app here in the UK and we understand
that paper has been presented to policy
makers this is how such an app would
work if everyone had it here subject a
has the coronavirus but does not yet to
know it or show any symptoms in their
day-to-day life if they come into
contact with other people at home on
public transport or even at work when
their symptoms begin to show they can
request a test and if it turns out
positive all the people they had
interaction with are immediately
notified by the app and told to self
isolate and get tested the place if they
have been have been decontaminated the
paper itself also recognizes that it
requires widespread trust from citizens
nervous about how government uses our
data misuse of people's data and we've
seen the use of big data to do
predictive policing and detain people
really for no reason so there's a
concern that although the status being
perhaps collected for a legitimate
purpose that it could potentially
eventually be misused in ways that we
can't predict right now another big
problem is the success of the app in
China involves widespread testing
something the UK government is
using to do it is no longer needed for
us to identify every case and we will
move from having testing mainly done in
homes and outpatients and walk walk in
centers to a situation where people who
are self who are remaining at home do
not need testing and we will pivot all
of the testing capacity to identifying
people in hospitals who have got
symptoms the policy is making it
impossible to know the true number of
cases in the UK and also goes against
the guidance of the World Health
Organization the government here is
trying to leverage herd immunity this is
when the resistance to an infection
builds up in a population as the virus
spreads they believe this will allow
them to bring in harsher measures at a
time they will be most effective it's
all about taking the right steps at the
right time which will best respond and
manage the impact of the virus and so
that we have the best possible outcomes
for our population today a senior
government source told channel 4 news
that they'd been inundated with
brilliant ideas to help but as Co vid 19
spreads the country is in a race against
time to deliver the ideas that work we
contacted the Department of Health to
ask if they had considered app based
infection control as part of their
response to the outbreak they have yet
to reply well joining me now from South
London is dr. Clare darada who was
chairperson of the Council of the Royal
College of General Practitioners from
2010 to 2013 she tested positive for the
virus last week and is now in isolation
thanks so much for coming on the show
Claire tell me what was your experience
like when did you get sick and when did
you test positive well it's been pretty
grim I have to be honest it's been like
a very bad dose of the flu which is more
or less what it is I got tested early
last week and I was found to be positive
on Thursday the illness itself is came
on very quickly if this haven't been
completely well coming from New York I
then got a very high temperature a sore
throat a dry cough and that was really
for about 48 hours maybe 50 56 hours
and then the the end of it we came on
very quickly and though I'm now very
tired the temperature stopped very
quickly the symptoms resided and I'm now
well on my way to recovery so you know
I'm a case that's come out the other end
I have to say I've got no underlying
health conditions though I am at me at
risk group I'm 60 and I've managed it
with paracetamol lemon a yoghurt and
Latin a chicken soup right and they have
to hear that you're you're better but
were you scared while you were ill yes I
was but you're always scared when you're
ill I mean it is frightening being
unwell and I think we have to take that
into account when we're asking people to
be unwell and at the same time isolated
I think we might need to rethink that it
was very helpful having a phone call
from the hospital just to check on how I
was that the people who did the testing
they rang twice which was really I can't
tell you how helpful it was and of
course as a GP my colleagues contacted
me but I think going forward
we will have GPS that will be doing home
visiting services clearly for the sick
not you know we're having to tailor
everything but I would like to say
something about testing we don't test
for seasonal flu in general practice but
we can still tell you approximately we
have surveillance it's because you're
not testing doesn't mean that nobody is
counting the number of cases they're
counted two different ways so going
forward I don't think I would be tested
now I'd be told go home rest up if I get
short of breath then contact and would
you be okay with that so it again would
you be okay with that if you were ill
again not to get tested just to stay at
home briefly don't is test for the flu I
mean we've never as GPS we've never
tested for influenza if a patient comes
to us with symptoms of influenza we say
to them I obvious it's influenza go home
these are what you have to do if this
happens contact me but otherwise it's a
two to four day illness this is what
you're going to feel like X Y and Zed it
doesn't mean we don't have surveillance
practices doesn't me so I think we've
got to be absolutely clear because we're
not testing now doesn't mean that we're
not modeling how many cases there are
okay Claire thank you very much and glad
to see that you're recovering and in
communi is the former Northwest Regional
Director of Public Health and former
president of the UK faculty a public
health professor dr. John Ashton
John great to have you on the program
you heard what Claire had to say there
she's gone through it she seems quite
relaxed about the government policy has
she got a point and well good close get
aggressive but on the testing we've got
a real problem the failure to test
systematically and to do sample surveys
of of the virus in the community is what
got us to this place now let me say this
math with the doubling of the number of
deaths today we are in a grave situation
we're in an exponential upward curve now
leading to large numbers of deaths were
just a couple of weeks behind Italy
almost certainly we've got the systemic
failure of leadership and action and
they were drifting towards an
authoritarianism because of the failure
of governments of the chief medical
officer and of the scientific adviser to
take the right course of action I think
we now at a point where we because we
need to engage properly with the public
and and there's no sign of that at all
at Boris Johnson I think needs to
consider his position permanently what
he wanted so much be Prime Minister and
he's not up to the job and I think he
needs to go along with this it's okay
John I don't want to politicize okay
come in Joe he's a man who would carry
respect okay John man of action let's
stick to the science John let's stick to
the science John John let's stick to the
science oolitic all matter okay lytic
the government is saying let me just say
something the government is saying that
they are following the advice of their
scientists they've considered this very
carefully and they say by delaying the
tactic of delay allowing some infections
to take place they will get this herd
immunity at the end of the day therefore
saving more
this is a scientific position so what's
your scientific view that this is flawed
the science is a narrow science this we
need we need total multidisciplinary
science here not just biological science
this is about culture change it's about
the community being in the lead of this
because they're going to have to carry
the brunt of it and from the chief
scientist to make these suggestions
about allowing the virus to go through
the population to get to herd immunity
with deaths that might be prevented is
unethical and it's unacceptable and he
should go but he is basing that judgment
on his science so we've got an argument
within the scientific community pitting
people like you against people like him
who are we to believe he represents a
narrow science and we need a broad
multidisciplinary 360 degree science we
need the lived experience of the
communities who are gonna have to handle
this thing there will not be enough
capacity in our hospitals we would need
about eight times as many intensive care
beds as we've got as this peaks in May
maybe or June we will not have it people
who are really ill are going to have to
be nervous at home we need to be
engaging with them this cannot be sorted
by three men in London telling people
what to do it's got to be social
mobilisation by people who are trusted
and can be believed and I think Rory
Stuart's now got sick okay as Prime
Minister you're going to farness I don't
want to do politics that I want to do
sign saying 20 seconds John should we go
to extreme measures now we will go
halfway to extreme measures but this is
a political situation it's a war City
okay all right John got a liver there a
professor dr. John Ashton says clear
getting back to you you just heard what
he had to say
I think it's porous briefly like briefly
Matt it's politics and science and
number two I think John I'm glad John's
not leading our response at Cobra I'm
glad that John is not involved in the
decision-making tree because John
is ill-informed and i think what he's
doing now is doing the exact opposite of
what leading medical profession should
be doing which is been looking and
supporting the government supporting the
decisions that they make which are the
right decisions at the right time for us
right Claire darada it is very
unsettling to hear experts in the
medical profession arguing publicly like
this about the right response I'm not
arguing about the right response I'm
saying the response is the current
response that our government is giving
us we're not with Cobra every day we're
not receiving the information we're not
with those scientists the modelers a
statistician the epidemiologist the
clinicians we're not in that room
they're in that room and at the end of
the day they come out okay the decision
or they leave it there Claire I'm sorry
to cut you short but we've run out of
time Claire Terada thank you very much
indeed for coming on the program I'm
glad that you're better