So your book is called "A Woman Makes A Plan,"
but you talk about in your book
how plans are often sideswiped
and you have to make a new plan.
So what is it about the plan
and not holding onto it too tightly?
Well, you do want to hold onto it tightly,
because you've got this plan
and it's going to be great.
And then, you know, all sorts of things
get thrown at you and then you are miserable,
and then you have to say, "Now I need to make another plan."
And what my books says is that I stayed
in miserable situations too long,
so maybe you don't have to.
And you talk about untraditional ways
that you pushed your career forward
when you were met with resistance.
Can you talk to me about that?
Well, everything you do, first of all as a dietician,
I actually started my own practice.
I was 21 and I started my practice at 22,
because I fell pregnant on honeymoon.
You really can't go looking for a job.
And so just from home, small practice
picking up over the years.
So that's why you figure out,
well, you have to work from home
because you've got kids.
And then you find that you've become very successful,
and you think, well, maybe I can live better
than this by not being absolutely miserable every day
in this bad marriage.
And when you moved to New York,
you signed with a very big modeling agency.
And it wasn't going better, like you expected it to go.
I know.
So how did you deal with that?
I was very sad, because I would go into the agency.
First of all, I had some big campaigns,
and then I joined the larger agency.
They just kept on saying I'm just not good enough
and nobody wants to see me at castings.
And I'm thinking, but surely they could just meet me,
and then maybe?
And then sometimes I would say
look I've joined you for six months.
The first job I went to, I booked the job.
So now I don't have anymore castings?
And I didn't join you to stop modeling.
They said, "We're doing our best!
Don't complain, we're doing our best."
And then they'd send me out for one casting.
And then the casting director would see me
lining up with 30 women, come and grab me
and say, "At long last we've got you!"
And they'd bring me to the front.
And they'd say, "We want you for this job!"
And I'd say, "Great!"
And then they said,
"Because you just haven't been available."
I'm thinking, why am I not available?
And then I would mention to my agency,
and then they would scream at me saying,
"Well, we're doing our best!
They're mixing you up with other models."
And I'm thinking not many models my age.
So this went on for a long time,
and every time I complained, they would scream
at me that they're doing their best.
And then I started getting model agencies all around,
all surrounding New York, as well as Europe,
and then I could model.
Have you had moments of lapses of confidence,
and what do you do to help get over those?
You have many lapses of confidence.
You are defeated many times where you think
I'm in this dark tunnel and I can't climb out of it.
And you just have to keep on thinking,
how do I get out of this bad situation?
Sometimes the law has to change
for you to be able to get divorced,
or move out of a contract, you know?
You have to be able to fight for yourself.
But I was always a softie, so I always trusted people.
I always didn't know why they would be malicious
or why would they be nasty?
What's the advantage to them?
And I guess people just like control and power,
and if they can have power over you,
it gives them joy, but it's not right.
Change seems to be something
that helps people grow a lot,
but is also very scary for most people.
Reading your book is like
one major life change after another.
Is change something that you lean into,
or something that you were forced to do?
Every time it was to better my situation,
and it was always scary,
and I just went into the deep end, you know?
And then I kept swimming until I came to the surface.
It takes a long time.
So when you move, like to a new city or a new country,
you know nobody.
I worked for myself,
so it's not like I had colleagues around me,
and it takes you a while to get friends
or meet people, and to build up your practice.
I mean, my kids were eating
peanut butter sandwiches for dinner.
And to be able to actually buy a chicken once a week
to have some chicken and potatoes and vegetables,
that was always a thrill.
So you look forward to good things like that.
You raised incredibly successful children.
You have three children.
Can you tell me what you did when you were raising them
that made them the way that they are today?
Well, I think it's similar to my parents.
They were working all the time.
I only saw them at six o'clock in the evening for dinner,
and they just made us independent.
We started working for them when we were young.
And in the same way, my children were helping me.
They were very aware that I had my practice at home,
and they need to be well-behaved and do their own homework,
because I didn't have time to work with them.
And they were, they were really good kids.
I was very lucky.
And you let them follow their own passions?
They followed their own passions,
and they all went in different directions.
And what is so magical about the age 12?
Well, you don't know it's a magic age
until you tell your stories and then you say,
"Oh, actually by 12 we already knew
what they were going to do.
And then as I said, they went in different directions.
When we moved to Toronto, my funds were blocked,
so I was a research officer at the University of Toronto.
So they could have come there for free
if they studied, or very little,
if they studied medicine or law.
But Elon and Kimbal wanted to study business,
and then Elon went on to study physics as well.
Tosca wanted to study film.
So they had to get their own scholarships,
they had to get their own loans,
and they had to support themselves, and they did it.
And looking back at the way you raised your children,
what is the best gift you think you gave them?
Well, I think I was strict,
and they tell me I was a pushover.
So there you go.
I think being polite and considerate of others,
and doing good for others.
I think they saw that.
As a dietician they saw me doing that.
And they all do good things for others.
And at 69, you became the oldest COVERGIRL in history.
How did they get you to do that campaign?
What was that process like?
Well, first of all, I was Instagram.
So Instagram got me IMG Models,
which they said there's a beauty company that's interested in me.
And I thought oh yeah, you know, you hear these things.
And then they said,
"Oh, we're going to be meeting with COVERGIRL."
I said, "Okay!"
And I go there and I see all my Instagram photos
up on the mood board, and I'm saying, "Hmm,
That's interesting."
And then they're talking as if
I was the COVERGIRL already,
and then afterwards I leave with my agent
I said, "Am I a COVERGIRL?"
She said, "Yes, the contract.
We've got the contract.
We're working on it."
I said, "Oh, until I sign that contract,
I'm not saying anything."
And I wasn't allowed to say anything.
And then when that contract came, it was just fantastic.
I just thought, wow!
It's like every model's dream
to be the face of a makeup brand, and now I am.
And the commercial,
I still remember seeing it for the first time.
It talks about age head-on, and it's very moving.
What was that process like,
and what did you think about the campaign
when you were shooting it?
Well, I thought they made me look fabulous.
They really did.
And then they wanted me dancing on a rooftop,
and they wanted me walking the street.
They had a lot of ideas.
I'm willing to do it all, yes.
I was treated like a big star,
because I had my own trailer, a large trailer,
and I had a double who would be for the lighting,
and I'd never had that before.
So this was all new to me and very exciting
to be looked after so nicely.
And where do you think we could still need
more age diversity in media?
We need age diversity everywhere, you know.
As men get older, they are still in the media,
still everywhere, and women are neglected.
They don't want to book them anymore and
my saying is that 50% of CEOs should be women.
50% of presidents should be women,
because we'll have a kinder, gentler world,
and also women should support women
to get to that position,
but men should support women too.
We're not competition to men.
We just think the best person
should be able to get the job.