Jesse Williams, welcome back to The Daily Show.
-Thanks for having me again. -Um, you think
you're gonna do it this time? 'Cause the last time I saw you,
you were getting ready to go to Broadway,
you were getting ready to make your debut,
and I will never forget it. It was around February 2020,
and you were like, "Oh, you got to come to the show.
-You got to..." Everyone made plan. -Yeah.
World shut down. Second time around, you feeling good?
I do. I feel great. I mean, we were...
Yeah, we were three weeks into rehearsal. It was...
I was nervous, I was terrified, all things I still am today,
but, um, we never got to take it to the next step.
So now, we're in tech, we're opening in a few days.
Um, and it's, uh, thrilling and terrifying,
-and we're ready to go. -It's not just your Broadway debut.
-But I mean, it's a play that's a revival... -Yeah.
...but it's a powerful story, as well.
Because it's a story of a baseball player
of color who comes out.
And I mean, and along, you know, amongst all sports,
athletes will tell you, "Look, I've got nothing against anybody
who's gay," but there's this attitude and this feeling...
-Yeah. -...in changing rooms. It was like,
"Just keep it out of... you know, keep it out
"of the change... Don't tell me about it." You know?
Right, right. The locker room is a pretty specific space.
-Yes. -Hypermasculine space.
Brings a lot of baggage in there.
Now, Richard Greenberg, who wrote the play,
envisioned this in the early 2000s,
-and he figured it was imminent that a superstar... -Wow.
...you know, not just a player, but a superstar,
top of his class, world-class athlete
-that was kind of untouchable. -Yes.
What would happen if that person came out?
Um, because you can't trade him, you can't release him.
This is somebody who is really at the pinnacle
of their profession. What would happen there?
And he thought it was gonna happen a year from then.
20 years have passed, still hasn't happened
-in any American major sport at that level. -Right.
Um, never...
And then, add to that him being Black.
Um, add to that him being biracial specifically...
-Right, right, right. -...and what that represents
in this country and doesn't.
Um, so it explores a lot of that.
And one of the things that's most fascinating to me is
that the character-- without giving too much away--
doesn't change or shift or do anything behavioral
-to provoke or let men hide behind behavior. -Yes.
-Yes. -"Oh, you know, I don't mind that he's gay, but I wish
he didn't do this..." "I don't mind that he's gay, wish he
-didn't act this way, or..." -Right, right.
He's not doing anything. This guy is the alpha, best player
in the world, best player on the team, championship team,
he hasn't changed anything, but said a word.
And look how men contort themselves and shape...
They don't know how to behave around him. They don't know how
to present themselves -Right, right.
And it takes away, you know, an interesting locker room dynamic
where guys are able to be kind of playful and homoerotic
-and maybe intolerant, and... -(laughing) Yeah. Yes.
You know, all those things that get woven into
locker room culture. Now, what do you do when I'm there?
When you're a story like this, one thing I've always loved
about fiction is that it-it oftentimes provides enough sugar
-for us to delve into facts. You know? -Mm-hmm. Yeah.
It's that through stories we get to solve all the puzzles
-that we can't seem to solve in real life. You know? -Yeah.
Like I-I know a lot of guys out there who would be,
"I'm fine with guys who are gay." And then you go, like,
"What if your friend's gay?" "Ah, that's not, that's not
"cool. Look, We got to keep our distance, man. -Right.
We gotta keep our distance, but I'm still cool with him."
And I go, "What changed?"
-Yeah. -And it's interesting when you realize
that there's still an idea of what gay is or isn't
-and how we react to it. -Yes.
And that's actually one of the more interesting things,
that there's that idea of what that means.
And if you... But if you don't behave in a different way,
it leaves you kind of flailing
for something to grasp at that makes you...
What does... What does gay mean without a demonstrable...
Very much like blackness.
-Yes. -Right? Like, you know, in a lot of media,
blackness has to be demonstrated.
-Right. Right. -It has to be shown
in some really narrow, uh, pedantic way.
Um, but with this, you know, the dy...
The friendships that Darren has, they're very different,
He's got a best friend that handles it one way.
There's religion comes into play.
There's a projection of-of aggression,
there's projection of prying eyes,
of me, you know, being a predator in some ways
when I'm not even looking at you.
There's all types of things that we forecast
that is a kind of a reflection
of what women have to deal with in our society,
what Black folks have to deal with in our society.
It comes with, and, you know, your presence alone
is two strikes out of three.
- Um, so, so it's a... -I like that.
So, you get to see how-how...
Um, it's really an interesting examination
of relationship and the damage that talking can do.
Expressing yourself too much.
Honesty, which feels like a pathway in,
-can sometimes... -Yes. Not be the best policy.
Not necessarily. You know, so, there's cultural dynamics.
We give a bias towards...
There's an interesting undercurrent
of white privilege in this story
that I think is really interesting,
whether, uh, intended or not.
Um, 'cause Darren is not only gay, but he's Black.
-Yes. -And he's one of very few Black characters in this play.
So there is a pretty...
There's an island I'm already on.
-That's fascinating, man. -Yeah.
-I can't wait to come and see it. -It's incredibly written.
-It's really... That's why I'm doing it. -Yeah.
It's really wonderful, smart material.
Incredible director. Great cast.
You are also going to be nude in some of the...
-in some of the scenes, yeah? -What?
-Yeah. Yeah. -Yeah.
-Yeah, it's happening. It's real. -This is, uh...
-This is onstage. -It's-it's onstage.
-It's, uh, no clothes. -I-I don't think
I would ever do public nudity,
but I think I would definitely not do nudity on Broadway,
because I think, like, on film, I feel like I could be like,
"Cut. I'm not feeling my best right now."
-Uh-huh. -Broadway is Broadway.
-So, you-- -Yeah, this is very helpful, I appreciate you
telling me all the things you wouldn't do that I'm doing.
No, no, no, what I'm saying is I'm-I'm commending you
and I'm asking you, because there is a certain comfort
that comes with the story and the setting.
And there's a realism that comes with it as well, by the way.
You can't have a conversation about
masculinity and power dynamics in a major sports team
without being in the locker room. A locker room,
-especially around "homosexual," um, expectations. -Yes.
It's about exposure, vulnerability.
What do I do? Where do my eyes have to go now?
And there's really interesting analysis through
the-- through conversation in the play about that.
What the-what the brief nudity does
-is bring the audience into our experience. -Yes.
Yes, this is wh-- You have to decide where to look.
You have to-- Are you listening? Can you look and listen?
Can you be here? Are you distracted? Does he
see me looking? Do I have to look up? Do I have to avoid?
-What do I do? So, the audience -I love that.
has to really experience what the characters
are going through and then that helps them understand,
who do they empathize with, what do they understand?
Lot of complex dynamics.
One of the most fascinating things is having arguments
where both characters are right.
Right? That's like real life.
-That's like arguing with your partner. -Yeah.
-You know? And reflecting on it two scenes later. -Mm-hmm.
So there's a real relatability to how messy this stuff is.
-Life is hard. -I love it, man.
It's, uh... it's exciting to see you onstage.
It's gonna be great to see you doing this for the first time.
-Thank you for coming on the show. -Thanks very much.
If we, uh, get extended, there might be a role for you
in there, if you want to whip it out.
Uh...
Think about it.
I-I will-- I will think about it.
Okay. Just take it under advisement.
-Put it under your hat. -Yeah.
Let's, uh-- let's go-- let's go-- let's go for a quick break
-while I think about this. -(laughs)
Uh, Take Me Out opens April 4,
and tickets are on sale right now.