LEO PARENTE: Hey.
MIKE SPINELLI: Hey, welcome to Road Testament.
LEO PARENTE: That was the first joke.
Don't say hey.
MIKE SPINELLI: Leo Parente's here on Road Testament.
I'm Mike Spinelli.
Hit us up on @drive on Twitter.
Today, we're going to be talking about something that
we would normally have asked you beforehand, and then you
would have contributed, and we would have read your
contributions.
But today, you're going to answer the question because
you've answered this question before.
I know you have.
LEO PARENTE: And the question is?
MIKE SPINELLI: The question is what's the
most fun car to drive--
most fun slow car to drive fast?
LEO PARENTE: Yeah, and actually,
this kind of started--
we were talking--
my new best friend, Gary [INAUDIBLE]?
MIKE SPINELLI: Oh, yeah.
LEO PARENTE: Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
Actually, he mentioned he bought a 458 Ferrari and sold
it almost immediately because, while it was a great car, on
the road, he couldn't use any of the potential.
So we got into this whole discussion of what's more fun
to drive on the road.
And here we are with the topic, slow car fast or fast
car slow on road.
MIKE SPINELLI: Exactly, but since--
everybody has done this but us, so that's why we're doing
it today, because screw it.
It's fun, and there are a million cars that we could be
talking about.
LEO PARENTE: And we're going to hang around and give you,
maybe, five of our own, and then after that, you can give
us your additions to the list.
MIKE SPINELLI: Exactly.
LEO PARENTE: See, then it's kind of like--
MIKE SPINELLI: And it's an endless list.
I mean, I've seen a hundred of these lists, and
there's still more.
LEO PARENTE: So my criteria, my criteria, it becomes more
qualitative, it's not big horsepower.
MIKE SPINELLI: No.
LEO PARENTE: OK, but it's an engine that buzzes and gives
you a little rev. Balanced, neutral-type handling.
I really don't care about how good or bad the brakes are,
because I just want to carry speed, and I want a lot a
lateral G's, which I'm sure we'll talk about that
eventually.
MIKE SPINELLI: All right, so for me, I prefer a little bit
more torque, although I like the high revving--
you want to really wind that engine.
LEO PARENTE: You're a hotrodder.
MIKE SPINELLI: But I like small torque-y engines because
bouncing out of a corner is always fun with that.
Breaks, obviously, I don't care about.
Obviously, neutral handling.
Breaks, I don't care about.
I mean as long as the thing stops, usually, these are
fairly light cars we're talking about, and I don't
care as much about lateral grip.
LEO PARENTE: Ooh.
MIKE SPINELLI: Don't.
LEO PARENTE: Well, you're of the BRZ family.
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, that's the thing.
I--
LEO PARENTE: So what's our first car?
MIKE SPINELLI: OK, let's just go right out.
For me, it starts in the '80s with the Porsche 944.
It's got the super neutral handling, amazing handling,
amazing steering.
But speaking of slow, Porsche 944--
I mean, what was it?
10 seconds to 60, in '83, '84, '85.
LEO PARENTE: But again, I don't care about
accelerating from stop.
I just want to know how I can drive.
MIKE SPINELLI: The only thing that it maybe has a little too
much lateral grip for oppo moments.
LEO PARENTE: For what?
[INAUDIBLE]
Chris Harris moment?
MIKE SPINELLI: Sorry, I'm throwing that at you.
For the Chris Harris moment.
Now, it's called the Chris Harris moment.
LEO PARENTE: No offense, Chris, I never want to enjoy
the Chris Harris moment deliberately.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right, because you, as a racer--
No, I'm just saying.
You probably have a different outlook.
LEO PARENTE: So my first two cars were, and I'm sure my
edge a little bit, but first one is Fiat X19.
MIKE SPINELLI: The wedge.
The wedge shape.
LEO PARENTE: There's no power.
I'm not sure how many lateral G's, but it was just very
neutral handling.
You toss it into a corner, it would stick and go.
The brakes were OK, but it was all about carrying momentum.
I love that.
And it was the right size.
Nice little tight package.
Hit the gear box, it would do it's rev thing.
It would be fine.
The next one is the old original MR2, the origami one.
MIKE SPINELLI: OK, so you're going to just go ahead and
give me your whole list?
Or can I--
LEO PARENTE: No, I put those two together--
MIKE SPINELLI: Oh, I get it.
All right.
LEO PARENTE: --the type of thing where--
MIKE SPINELLI: I will give you that.
LEO PARENTE: --less mass than your 944, and lateral G's, the
MR2 had a ton of lateral G's, so I was OK with those cars.
MIKE SPINELLI: Cool.
I sort of did this a little bit in order of fun.
LEO PARENTE: OK.
MIKE SPINELLI: From worst to best-- worst.
I mean, from less best to best best.
LEO PARENTE: Best best.
MIKE SPINELLI: The next one, Chevy Chevette.
LEO PARENTE: Are you freaking--
MIKE SPINELLI: Chevy Chevette.
Or Vauxhall Chevette, I'm sorry.
LEO PARENTE: OK, so you've got to sell me that, because all I
can envision is you're trying to slalom on the light poles
at a Home Depot.
MIKE SPINELLI: All right, so yes, first of all.
Second, the steering, obviously, doesn't rise to the
level of the--
LEO PARENTE: This was the Vega.
This was the next generation Vega in my mind.
MIKE SPINELLI: Rear-wheel drive, very super light.
LEO PARENTE: Tramp axle.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right.
And don't forget--
LEO PARENTE: By the way, that's not the name of a date.
MIKE SPINELLI: Tramp axle?
LEO PARENTE: I think I dated her.
Tramp axle.
Or a band.
It's a band.
MIKE SPINELLI: Tramp Axle.
LEO PARENTE: Tonight at the Roxy.
Sorry, go ahead.
MIKE SPINELLI: [DEEP VOICE]
Tramp Axle.
[NORMAL VOICE]
Where the hell was I?
LEO PARENTE: I'm channeling Mike Spinelli.
MIKE SPINELLI: And by the way--
LEO PARENTE: So Chevette.
MIKE SPINELLI: Chevette.
LEO PARENTE: Why do you think that was a good car?
MIKE SPINELLI: The Chevette wasn't a good car.
It was a fun car to drive fast, as fast as you could
drive it because it was very neutral.
And by the way, ask--
I'm not sure who did it, but ask anyone who rallied a
Vauxhall Chevette--
LEO PARENTE: They rallied?
They actually did?
MIKE SPINELLI: Yes, they did.
LEO PARENTE: Wow, see, that beats--
I was just reminding myself that I work for Toyota, and I
had, for a while, the rear drive Tercel.
MIKE SPINELLI: Oh, yes.
LEO PARENTE: The equivalent of the Chevette.
MIKE SPINELLI: All right, yeah.
LEO PARENTE: OK, same thing.
You're right.
Tossable.
A tossable car.
MIKE SPINELLI: A tossable car.
LEO PARENTE: Got it.
MIKE SPINELLI: And by the way also, when the Fiero got its
first sub frame in the front, that was from a Chevette.
LEO PARENTE: Chevette?
MIKE SPINELLI: Yes.
LEO PARENTE: I knew I liked Fiero.
MIKE SPINELLI: Exactly.
All right, go ahead.
What's next?
Speaking of, GM, Cosworth Vega.
V cam.
MIKE SPINELLI: Wow, the first double Overhead Cam, I think,
in GM's history.
LEO PARENTE: I think so, because we were talking about
the Pontiac Overhead Cam Straight SIX, with single Cam.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
MIKE SPINELLI: So they went to Cosworth.
MIKE SPINELLI: I mean, but it was--
LEO PARENTE: Revvy car.
MIKE SPINELLI: It wasn't technically because that
engine wasn't built in America.
LEO PARENTE: No.
MIKE SPINELLI: It was built in the UK.
LEO PARENTE: And imported and assembled in Lordstown with
union help.
And then rusting with American rain.
And it wasn't quick, but it was revvy
and fast and handled.
MIKE SPINELLI: It was Lee Iacocca's
answer to the BMW 1600.
LEO PARENTE: Lee Iacocca was--
MIKE SPINELLI: Not Lee, I'm sorry.
Geez, what the hell's wrong with me?
No, no, no.
LEO PARENTE: Dennis Leary?
MIKE SPINELLI: No, no, no, no no.
John DeLorean.
LEO PARENTE: Yes
MIKE SPINELLI: John DeLorean's answer to the BMW 1600.
LEO PARENTE: That was actually unconscious, subliminal.
Keep going.
MIKE SPINELLI: OK is that-- that's where you are?
LEO PARENTE: Yeah, I'm done with that one.
What's next?
MIKE SPINELLI: OK, I'm going to go also, what is it, the
Mark 7 Mini Cooper.
LEO PARENTE: Oh, I thought you were going to say the Lincoln.
MIKE SPINELLI: The Lincoln Mark 7.
Yeah, actually that's--
LEO PARENTE: The Mini Cooper?
MIKE SPINELLI: Yes.
LEO PARENTE: You and I were in a car.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yes, we had a fun time.
Actually, we drove back to New York from Monticello on a very
weird, rainy evening, in a-- it was a '97, '99.
LEO PARENTE: It was kind of refurbished.
It was a mini restomod.
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, right, it's the Rover.
Yeah, the Rover Minis.
LEO PARENTE: But it was cool.
MIKE SPINELLI: 1.3 liter, fuel-injected, but still very
mini, with the bus steering wheel.
And we'd, I mean--
LEO PARENTE: Changing lanes, carving corners.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
LEO PARENTE: Buzzing the motor.
MIKE SPINELLI: We kept up with all those knuckleheads in the
whatever they were driving, the guys we were with.
So yeah, that thing is definitely and probably zero
to 60 in 12 seconds, but whatever.
LEO PARENTE: So I'm going to go contemporary, finally.
I'm going to go with the rent-a-car I had in Detroit
this past weekend.
The Ford Focus, the current Ford Focus.
MIKE SPINELLI: Oh no.
LEO PARENTE: Yeah, and I'll tell you why.
It had an automatic--
MIKE SPINELLI: Wait, to current--
the latest model.
LEO PARENTE: The latest gen--
MIKE SPINELLI: Oh, OK.
MIKE SPINELLI: OK?
The brakes were good.
The car cornered fantastic.
MIKE SPINELLI: Lots of lateral grip for you?
LEO PARENTE: It had more than enough for the little car.
And I love the deceptive part of, it's just a normal car to
carry people, but it was kind of doing the corner thing
really well.
You touch the brake a little to make it not be a
front-drive car.
And that gear box that everyone hated?
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
LEO PARENTE: It was not a manual.
It was a rent-a-car.
MIKE SPINELLI: That's my question because I actually
haven't driven the new Focus.
LEO PARENTE: So I heard everything bad about it, and
I'm not saying I was brilliant with it, but if you just move
your throttle foot a little bit when I was anticipating
the shift, in made seamless shift.
Bottom line, it was not a bad car, and we're going quick.
It was not called a fast car, it's not a performance car.
But it was fun to drive and do the off-ramp thing.
MIKE SPINELLI: But enough to be on your list.
LEO PARENTE: And it made my list.
MIKE SPINELLI: Wow, interesting.
LEO PARENTE: I think Ford's got the handling figured out
on their cars.
They're feeling more European.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right, right.
I'm going to throw in a brand new car, too.
LEO PARENTE: Yay.
MIKE SPINELLI: Well it feels really obvious, but it's the
Subaru BRZ Scion FRS.
LEO PARENTE: Yeah, but you've got to go with it.
MIKE SPINELLI: You've got to go with it.
LEO PARENTE: That's exactly what they're talking about.
MIKE SPINELLI: It's like they looked at a list of the cars
that people like us always yammer on about, and they went
and built the modern version of that.
LEO PARENTE: Now, here comes my fight, because even Toyota
and Subaru are making a big deal about low grip to get the
cornering sensation, be able to have a lot of slip angle--
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, they're also low rolling resistance.
They're the same tires that--
they're on the Prius V. Or the other one.
LEO PARENTE: But they're trying to market is as, see,
you can drift the car or slide the car.
MIKE SPINELLI: But It's not right, and they're not those
crappy big wheel tires like that used to be the rolling
resistance.
I mean, they've come a long way.
Michelin actually has come a really long
way with those tires.
But you're right.
LEO PARENTE: Despite the Cadillac ad in the front of
our shows that show the G meter only going to 0.46, and
I know the car does more, I want a car that can arc that
corner at a high limit of G's, and I don't think that's a
problem in a road car.
That's part of the fun.
So to have a low coefficient of friction, to feel like, oh,
I'm having fun because I'm steering at 0.46,
I don't want that.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right, but a slow car's not going to get
you around the track or around, let's say, a course
any quicker.
LEO PARENTE: Yes, it will.
If I'm pulling more G's than you.
MIKE SPINELLI: I'm sorry, that's a stupid thing to say.
You're right, it will relatively faster.
You're right, but if it's about fun--
LEO PARENTE: I'm having--
MIKE SPINELLI: You're having more fun
getting that corner right.
LEO PARENTE: I'm having more fun in that offramp at 0.7,
0.8, than you are at 0.46, in my mind, because I know--
MIKE SPINELLI: Why do I have to go 0.46?
Where'd you get me down--
LEO PARENTE: Because Cadillac told me.
That's as far as I know.
MIKE SPINELLI: So I can only do one course--
LEO PARENTE: My next car.
MIKE SPINELLI: All right, go ahead, go ahead.
LEO PARENTE: So when we went to the Nurburgring, we were in
a Audi A3 TDI Turbo Diesel.
Every time I talk about that car, everyone slams me for how
can you enjoy a diesel.
You mentioned the buzzword, the magic
word, earlier, torque.
I have this little [INAUDIBLE]
niche coming off every goddamn corner, just banging the thing
accelerating out.
MIKE SPINELLI: So I mean, I guess that's technically a
slow car, even though it's pretty-
LEO PARENTE: I mean, if we talked about fast cars like GT
500s and Camaro this, those are the classic fast cars.
My version of slow car is just that, something you wouldn't
expect to be quick, an everyday-ish type car.
You mentioned 10 seconds acceleration.
I'm sure this wasn't at fours and fives and threes.
But it felt like a fun car.
It was a fun car to drive fast.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
I mean, it's in the six.
But still, OK, all right, I'll give you that.
I'll give you that one.
I'm at the top of my list right now.
Is that the top of your--
Oh, you didn't do yours in order?
LEO PARENTE: No, no, no.
MIKE SPINELLI: Oh, all right.
Anyway, I'm at the top of my list.
The BMW E30 318 IS.
LEO PARENTE: Good, I'm going to look for the picture
because I never know what it's E's and I's are.
MIKE SPINELLI: By the way, it's at the very top.
Well, next to Porsche, best steering, best handling, best
cornering, most fun.
Little slow.
LEO PARENTE: Totally on board.
So I'm going to add two more since JF is not here.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yes.
LEO PARENTE: Number one, I'm going to add one to my list.
When I worked at Ford, they introduced the first Ford
Fiesta front drive, that little [INAUDIBLE].
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, sure, yeah.
LEO PARENTE: I like the Mini.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
MIKE SPINELLI: That was a German car.
Right?
Wasn't it Cologne was his name?
LEO PARENTE: Very good.
MIKE SPINELLI: I'm just saying.
LEO PARENTE: And actually, I think Bob Lutz was involved
with that in his Ford days or something.
Anyway--
MIKE SPINELLI: Was that their response to anything?
Or what was that about?
LEO PARENTE: Now, you're really testing me.
It was a response to something I can't recall.
MIKE SPINELLI: Fuel economy.
LEO PARENTE: And for bringing it to America, it was to fuel
economy and have some personality.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right, that's when gas went over $1 for the
first time.
LEO PARENTE: I had one as a company car, a
little orange one.
MIKE SPINELLI: Oh.
That was a nice orange, too.
LEO PARENTE: I was trying to learn how to rally
Scandinavian flick with my company car.
They can't catch me now.
Every snow bank in White Plains, New York, had the
impression of the Fiesta grill.
They never figured it out.
And then my last one, the one that JF would probably
mention, Mazda Miata.
MIKE SPINELLI: Oh, yeah.
LEO PARENTE: How do you not go Miata?
MIKE SPINELLI: That's pretty obvious, yeah.
I know they're getting quicker.
I know Chris and you talked about how they're getting
heavier, but the original ones were cool.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, well, they're going to look at
making them lighter, so the next
one's going to be lighter.
LEO PARENTE: Because they saw DRIVE, and they commented on
it at DRIVE.
MIKE SPINELLI: That's exactly why they did it.
LEO PARENTE: But we want you to add to that list.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, yeah.
LEO PARENTE: What do you categorize as your favorite
slow car fast have fun driving on the road.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right.
I think there was one I wanted to add, the
first gen Honda Accord.
What's that, '78?
LEO PARENTE: Yeah, I can see it in my mind.
It's a great car.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, '70 to '81.
A real fun car to drive, great engine, torque-y for its size,
not real quick, but great handling.
LEO PARENTE: So when you said you had something else to add,
I thought you were going to mention the promo.
MIKE SPINELLI: Oh, no.
The Le Mans promo, but you are the racing guy.
So I figured I'd leave it to you.
LEO PARENTE: So I get to do it?
MIKE SPINELLI: Yes, you do.
LEO PARENTE: All right, so DRIVE is
going back to Le Mans.
Another 25 hours of the 24-hour Le Mans live stream
here from the DRIVE studio with all of us from DRIVE.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, all your favorite DRIVE celebrities.
LEO PARENTE: And those that--
MIKE SPINELLI: And your not-so-favorite DRIVE
celebrities.
But whatever, it's fine, I'll be there.
LEO PARENTE: Yeah, yeah.
And we're going to have Skypes, some
reports from the field.
We're going to have connections to the race teams
that are there at Le Mans, the ones you like.
And we're going to find out whether we break first before
the 24 hours are up or the delta wing does.
MIKE SPINELLI: Great.
And whoever-- oh, nice.
Or whoever falls asleep first, we'll write track positions on
them in mustard.
LEO PARENTE: Who needs a telestrator?
We've got mustards and a sleeping guy.
MIKE SPINELLI: Exactly.
LEO PARENTE: So tune in.
OK?
It's the day of the race.
MIKE SPINELLI: Day of the race.
Anyway, that is Road Testament.
Hit us up on @drive on Twitter.
Let us know, slow cars to drive fast.
LEO PARENTE: Give us your list.
MIKE SPINELLI: Give us your list.
You're been working on it forever.
I know you have.
That's it.
LEO PARENTE: You just can't turn off the revs.
MIKE SPINELLI: I can't turn it off.
Good-bye.
Right?
So anyway, what were talking about before.
LEO PARENTE: I'm not talking to you.