>> ALL RIGHT.
WELCOME BACK.
A LOT OF JOURNALISTS, ME AMONG
THEM, ARE STRUGGLING WITH THE
WILLINGNESS OF THE AMERICANS
WILLING TO BELIEVE THINGS ABOUT
THE ELECTION THAT TIME HAS SHOWN
TO BE UNTRUE.
NO RECOUNTS, AUDITS AND COURT
DECISIONS MATTER.
I CONTINUE TO RECEIVE E-MAILS
AND MESSAGES THAT INSIST I AM
DISHONEST AND PART OF A MASSIVE
PUBLIC DELUSION AND THEY BELIEVE
PRESIDENT TRUMP EVEN THOUGH THE
WASHINGTON CATALOG OF UNTRUTHS
WHILE IN OFFICE RUNS TO 30,000
INSTANCES.
INTERESTING TAKE ON THE NEW YORK
TIMES.
THE PEACE CALLED WHY MILLIONS
THINK IT’S TRUMP WHO CANNOT TELL
A LIE AND IT’S MY GUEST WHO
WRITES EVERY WEEK FOR THE TIMES.
MR. EDSEL, THANK YOU FOR YOUR
TIME AND APPRECIATE YOUR
THOUGHTFULNESS ON THIS MATTER AND MAYBE WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND
AND MAYBE WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND
THE INCALCITRANCE INSTEAD OF
INSULTING IT.
>> IT’S A STRANGE PHENOMENA JUST
AS IT’S BOTHERED YOU, HOW COULD
SO MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE WHAT
CLEARLY APPEARS TO BE A
FALSEHOOD AND IT’S SORT OF
INFECTING DISORDER, INFECTING
OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM IN WAYS
THAT APPEAR INCREASINGLY
DANGEROUS WHERE YOU HAVE PEOPLE
REJECTING THE OUTCOME OF AN
ELECTION WHICH IS A BASIC
OPERATIVE PREMISE OF DEMOCRACY
THAT ELECTIONS ARE CONSIDERED OR
ARE AT LEAST TREATED AS
LEGITIMATE OUTCOMES.
WHAT I FOUND IN DOING THIS
RESEARCH ON THIS, TALKING TO A
LOT OF PEOPLE, IS THAT A LOT OF
REPUBLICANS, ESPECIALLY
REPUBLICAN ELECTED OFFICIALS
LIKELY DO NOT ACTUALLY BELIEVE
THIS, BUT THEY ARE ACCEDING TO
IT AS A FORM OF WHAT YOU COULD
CALL VIRTUE SIGNALING.
THEY’RE SIGNALING FOR THEIR
CONSERVATIVE FELLOWS THAT THEY
ACCEPT TRUMP AND THAT THEY
ACCEPT HIS POPULISM AND HIS
PREMISE, BUT THEY ACTUALLY
UNDERLYING THAT DO NOT BELIEVE
IT.
SO IT’S A VERY CURIOUS
PHENOMENON.
>> Devin: IT IS, AND WHAT YOU
WRITE AND HAVE FOUND FROM THE
MANY PEOPLE YOU TALKED ABOUT IS
BEHIND IT HAS LESS TO DO WITH
ELECTIONS OR VOTING OR ANY
PARTICULAR THINGS THAT HAPPENED
ON 2020 AND MORE SOCIETAL
CHANGES THAT ARE SHIFTING
BENEATH THE FEET OF A LOT OF,
ESPECIALLY AS A LOT OF PEOPLE
ARE WRITING, WHITE AMERICANS AND
OLDER AMERICANS, THAT IS VERY
DISCOMFITING TO MANY PEOPLE AND
THAT THEY’RE NOT QUITE SURE HOW
TO DEAL WITH A NEW AMERICA THAT
THEY’RE SEEING.
>> THE WORLD HAS CHANGED FOR
MANY AMERICANS, ESPECIALLY
OUTSIDE OF WHERE YOU ARE IN
MICHIGAN, RURAL MICHIGAN,
SMALLTOWN MICHIGAN HAS BECOME A
UNIVERSE WHERE WHAT HAD ONCE
BEEN AN HONORED, WELL-LIVED
MIDDLE CLASS LIFE HAS NOW BECOME
A LIFE OF DECLINE, A CULTURAL
CHANGE THAT HAS IN MANY RESPECTS
LEFT THESE PEOPLE BEHIND.
THE WORLD SEEMS TO BE ADVERSE TO
THEM AND TRUMP SPOKE TO THAT TO
THESE PEOPLE AND HE DID VERY
SUCCESSFULLY WIN THEM OVER AND
THEY BECAME MORE TRUMP LOYALISTS
THAN THEY BECAME REPUBLICANS.
THAT ENCOURAGED A WILLINGNESS TO
BELIEVE WHAT THEY DISBELIEVE.
SORT OF A CULTURE WHERE
ACCEPTING WHAT TRUMP SAID AS
TRUE BECAME KIND OF A MANDATE
FOR SURVIVAL IN THIS COMPLEX
WORLD.
I’M NOT SURE IF I’M CONVEYING
THIS CORRECTLY, BUT A DIFFERENT
WORLD VIEW.
>> Devin: IT MAKES A LOT OF
SENSE TO ME AND I THINK THAT FOR
THE MOST PART A LOT OF PEOPLE
WHO HAVE GONE ALONG WITH THIS OR
MAYBE HAVE BEEN ABSENT IN
PROTESTING IT, MAYBE IS A BETTER
WAY TO EVEN THINK ABOUT THIS,
IT’S COME WITH VERY LITTLE COST.
NOW, IT’S COME--
WE’VE SEEN IT COME WITH A COST
FOR MANY OF THOSE WHO HAVE NOW
BEEN CHARGED WITH WHAT HAPPENED
AT THE CAPITOL JANUARY 6TH.
NOW WE’RE STARTING TO SEE, FOR
INSTANCE, WE’VE GOT THIS GROUP
OF MICHIGAN REPUBLICANS I
MENTIONED IN THE LAST SEGMENT
THAT WE’VE GOT A PROSECUTION OR
AN INVESTIGATION UNDERWAY AS TO
WHETHER THEY COMMITTED FRAUD BY
SIGNING ON WHAT CLEARLY APPEAR
TO BE A FALSE NARRATIVE ABOUT
WHO WON THE ELECTION IN
MICHIGAN. ARE THERE COSTS THAT MAY END UP
ARE THERE COSTS THAT MAY END UP
BEING EXACTLYED ON SOME OF THESE
FOLKS AND THAT DIDN’T COST TOO
MUCH?
>> THE COSTS ARE ON A SMALL
SEGMENT EVEN IN MICHIGAN, A
SMALL FRACTION OF THE PERCENTAGE
OF PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE.
IT’S NOT AS IF THE COSTS ARE
REALLY FELT.
THE REAL COSTS ARE THAT ONCE
PEOPLE # ARE WILLING TO ACCEPT A
LIE THAT THEY KNOW IS A LIE,
THEY THEN READY AND WILLING TO
DO THAT IN THE FUTURE AND IN THE
FUTURE WE HAVE THE ELECTION OF
2022 COMING UP AND 2024 COMING
UP.
THE 2-4--
IF THE ELECTION IN 2024 ARE
CLOSE, YOU HAVE LARGE NUMBER OF
ELECTED OFFICIALS WHO HAVE BEEN
WILLING TO CONCEDE TO--
OR ACCEDE, MAYBE, TO CHALLENGES
OF THE LEGITIMACY OF AN ELECTION
WHEN THEY KNOW THE CHALLENGES
ARE WRONG.
THAT MAKES THEM BASICALLY READY
ALLIES IN THE FUTURE TO VERY
DANGEROUS CHALLENGES INTO OUR
WHOLE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS.
>> Devin: I FEAR THAT IS SO.