Stay! Good girl!
So you first started out in folk, what were your main inspirations back then?
I guess I listened to a lot of country music, Kasey Chambers, Paul Kelly.
When I was in grade four I took some Shania Twain lyrics and wrote them in my diary
and took them to my friends at school and was like, this is my new song I wrote.
Did anyone call you out on it?
No! They were like this is a beautiful song and we never spoke about it again.
So, on this album you got to collaborate with some of your music idols
including Paul Kelly, what was the process like collaborating on that song?
Wild, I remember getting to his house and being so nervous and I said,
my friend dropped me off and I went to send her a text message
and I wrote "Omfg I'm gunna omit", meaning to write vomit. Then he answers the door
and he's like "Oh, I just got a text from you" and I was like "What? I didn't text you?"
He reads it out "Omfg I'm gunna omit"? and I was like what! no! grabbed his phone, threw it.
Um, I didn't but I was so humiliated, I couldn't believe it.
I had to tell him that I meant to send that to my friend and I'm really nervous.
So, luckily he though that was quite funny.
Where were you when you first found out that Paul McCartney was going to play guitar on your album?
I was in my apartment on the Lower East Side of New York where I was staying.
I get this message from David, my producer, and he says "You'll never guess who came in to visit the studio
and who just played guitar on your song."
I was just like aw who? thinking it would be someone amazing but obviously not that, no.
Yeah, it was Paul and when he was in Australia last he invited me to his show.
I brought my dad and we got to watch him and before he played I got to meet him.
I got to thank him for being part of that song and that was pretty special.
So, last year you released 'Clumsy Love' which was a massive success
but was also the beginning of a collaboration with the artist Claudia.
For that first music video you asked her to find a crew that was all women or non-binary.
How much did that change the experience?
Yeah, I think it changes the experience completely when there's a few less dicks swinging around.
I dunno, I really enjoy working with women and it's something that's important to me.
Also to have people around me that represent me and represent what my normal life look is like
it just works. I really love working with her and we've made two more clips since then.
How special was the process of making the music video for 'Better in Blak'?
Very special, I recruited some of the most amazing Aboriginal women in my life.
I also had my two older sisters in the film clip and it was the first time
that the three of us were ever together in a room
because my oldest sister, she was adopted out when she was a baby so
I actually grew up not knowing she existed.
In high school, I remember getting this Facebook message - I was in grade 11 - from someone
being like "I'm your sister" and me being like "wow, wild!"
Ever since then we've become really, really close.
There's this moment where I'm in front and they're behind me and we're all crying
at that point. It's pretty special I felt very protected and safe at that point.
You've spoken about a particular moment that inspired you to write that song.
I have this song on the album, and it's quite ironic I'm singing this, and it's called 'Do You Ever Get So Sad?'
We were recording that and doing a live take of that song.
My phone just started blowing up and I was like "what's going on?"
Somewhere on the internet something has happened.
Then I went on Instagram and there were all these messages like "You f**king a*o c**t", "You slut"
"You should die."
Pretty much the worst stuff you could say to another person.
There were just so many people saying it and it was so much.
I just, oh my god, I was so sad, I just broke down.
I just wanted to hide, I wanted to delete my Instagram.
Not let anybody see me ever again.
I didn't do that, instead the next day I wrote 'Better In Blak'.
Do you think people would be surprised by the frequency and type of abuse that people of colour in Australia get?
I'm not surprised and I don't think any people of colour are surprised.
It's weird because people are like "Put your phone away" but I want to exist and I want to be able to exist.
I want to be able to do all the other things I want to do without being worried someone is going to tell me
to kill myself.
It's really scary, I get worried for my safety and it has happened before.
People that have said stuff online have rocked up to my shows before.
You have had some pretty ugly exchanges with people within the Aussie music industry.
What's the biggest lesson that you've taken away from some of that?
One thing would be that some things should probably not be solved online.
I don't want to be angry anymore, it's so tiring being so angry all the time.
That doesn't help me at all. I want to make music and I want to get back to writing songs.
Do you think the Australian music industry is ready to change? Is ready to stop supporting problematic men?
Yeah, for sure but it's something that's happened only after people like me and other people of colour
fought for a really long time and had to wear a lot of this.
Now everybody is ready and that's great but it's come at the expense of a lot of people of colour.
I remember saying to my mum, "If I had any advice for any young black women it would be to shut your mouth
and to never say anything."
In my industry in particular because it's just not worth it, especially if you want to survive and be allowed to live.
But now I don't feel like that at all, I'm proud that I call shit out when I see it.
Now, what I would say to young black women is absolutely speak your truth.
Don't be scared of anyone and also I will be in your corner.
I'll f**k up anyone that f**ks with you (laughs).