- So, you're this great cinematic filmmaker. - Well, thank you.
Funny, charismatic, but lately you've been known for a different topic
Yes.
which is creator burnout and creator well-being.
And I have to quickly tell you the story of how I was introduced to you
- Yes I'm intrigued. - which was some coworkers of mine
sent your video to me and several of us sitting there
and we started watching.
So everyone knows, this is the video "Burnt Out At 19."
Yes.
It was a very eye-opening experience for us
because we kept hearing about burnout, but we'd never seen it in the moment, right?
Yes, I had gained a million subscribers in a very short amount of time
and everything was just like hectic and crazy
I was on tour, I was going to conventions
I was doing meet-and-greets, I was making videos and travelling
I was never home
and it all just kind of built up and built up
and I broke down and I was extremely burnt out.
During that month, I started experiencing stuff I hadn't experienced before
like panic attacks.
My depression was getting a lot worse
and so I took a month off the Internet
and I came back and I made a video called "Burnt Out At 19"
which is what we're talking about
and just kind of explained what I've gone through.
Now, I'm glad you did, because I think people needed to see
exactly what goes on with a sort of breakdown or burn out.
Do you feel that creator burnout is something out of your control
and YouTube's control?
That's really what we're wrestling with right now.
It is "how much of this is our responsibility?"
"is there anything with the search and discovery system that we can do?"
We have a tool on the viewer side, I don't know if you've heard about it
- but it's time watched, in the app. - Oh yeah, I just saw it recently.
So, if you're watching a lot of YouTube
you can set this setting for an alert that comes up
that says like "Hey, you've been watching for
"(however long you set it for, maybe it's 2 hours)
"do you want to take a break?"
And I think part of the discussion is
on the product side, should we be doing that for creators?
- Okay, yeah. - Like uploaders
like, "Hey, you've uploaded every day for the past 2 weeks
- "do you want to take a break?" - Yeah.
We built this global stage that anybody can get on and make videos on
and perform on
but now we're seeing that people are staying on the stage for too long
- at the detriment of their own health - Yeah.
and what do we do about that?
- Because you can't grab them off. - Do we take people off the stage?
Like, "You've gotta come down
- "you're looking tired." - Yeah.
We know the law of fame, it's hard to not go after 100%, you know.
You've found fame pretty quickly.
Is part of this around fame
and do you have any advice for creators who quickly rise to fame?
It's tough.
I think something that's key is having people around you to help you with that
in both senses, both in keeping you grounded
and remembering where you were before "the fame"
and then having managers, agents, and assistants
that help you kind of keep on track
and make sure that your schedule isn't overflowing.
How much of this is about creator restraint?
A lot of it does fall onto the creator to make it better.
Because yeah, YouTube can only do so much
but the creator's the one saying yes or no to these things
and they have control over their schedule and how much pressure they have on themselves.
We struggle a lot with what we can do as a company and a platform
to help creators
and we also are asking ourselves how responsible we are for this happening.
On one hand, I personally think
when you're trying to be the person who's in front of all the eyeballs
that's going to burn you out pretty quickly
because everyone's trying to be on top of that pile, right?
But is there anything that we should do to help with this issue, as a platform?
It's tough, because I don't think there really is.
I think just having a conversation about it is really helpful.
I know Kati Morton, she recently did a talk on burnout
and she had tips on how to prevent burnout
and tips on what to do when you are burnt out.
Yeah, we worked with Kati on a Master Class for our creators channel
and we also have a Creator Academy course.
I mean is all we can do educate people around this sort of "trap" that you can fall into
and best practices around staying well?
Yeah, I think it is, because it ultimately does fall onto the creator
and it sucks, because that's how it is.
You're going to have to keep on making videos
to keep an audience
and I guess the best you can do is really promote mental health
and putting your mental health first, over YouTube.
Do you have any words of encouragement
to the creators who are heavily affected by burnout?
You've got to pace yourself
and you've got to make this a sustainable thing
whether it's a hobby or a full-time career that you're going for with YouTube.
I think first and foremost, make sure this is something that's sustainable and fun
and then push it to the limit that you set for yourself
but hopefully it's a healthy one.
So, let's go back to, what is it, April of this year
when you put out the video "Burnt Out At 19."
If you could've given yourself one piece of advice
a couple of months before that happened
for the creator who's getting to that point
what would it be?
It's finding an upload schedule
that doesn't tire you out, but also does satisfy your audience.
So, finding a balance.
I feel like I was sprinting for months when I could've just done a nice jog
and either way, I would end up where I was.
So, I watched a lot of videos before you coming here
and people ask, of course, how are you doing now?
And I know you go "Well if I was here in April
"and this is like 'I'm doing really well'"
you know, you're like "I'm here, I'm not at half even yet."
Yeah.
So, how are we going to get you on the other half of feeling better
about running your channel.
I think that's just something hopefully over time I'll figure out.
I think a lot of it is a "me" problem, and I think that's working on myself
and taking the time to work on myself.
And getting extra help, like therapy obviously.
I have yet to really put myself full-force into that.
And so, allowing myself to get completely better.
- Well, please pace yourself, we're big fans. - Thank you.
- And thanks for joining us today. - Thank you so much.
We've definitely heard creators say before that if you take a break from uploading
that the algorithm will punish you
and that creators definitely feel like they can't take vacations
or the audience will disengage and their views are going to go down.
Is that something you feel like you've experienced before?