- So you hit the small screen with "L.A. Law",
hung out there for a while.
1996, you make your way to the set of a movie called
"Set It Off".
- Mm-hmm.
- And of course this is what the kids are now calling it,
a blassic movie, black classic movie.
Isn't that cute? (laughing)
Isn't that cute,
they're so innovative. - I hadn't heard that,
- I like that.
A blassic movie.
- A blassic. - Okay.
- A blassic movie.
And I mean, the cast alone,
I would watch anything that they make.
You had Jada Pinkett Smith, Queen Latifah, Vivica Fox
and Kimberly Elise.
And you've got all of these really, really strong women
in these really strong roles and here you are,
dude in a story about women and friendship.
How did you see your role as being one of the key men
in this story?
- You know I have to tell ya, I wasn't gonna do that movie.
Initially. - Really?
I was playing Jackie Robinson in a movie with
Mykelti Willamson and Delroy Lindo called
"Soul of the Game" all about the negro leagues of baseball.
- Mm-hmm.
- And I was (laughing) in this place of,
black historical figures and noble Negroes
and great stories and all this and this was,
I forgot what year it came out but this right after
"Boyz n the Hood" had come out.
- Mm-hmm.
- "Menace II Society" and there was a lot of conversation
of, the script comes out about you know these four black
women in the hood and they're like, now we're gonna do
girls in the hood and there was a little pushback like,
why they only wanna see as slaves or in the hood
in Hollywood (speaking over each other).
So and now I'm doing this historical figure,
playing Jackie Robinson and I remember,
I remember it, I'll be honest with you,
I remember it, I was in my hotel room and I read the script,
I read the first 16 or 18 pages and I read the scene
where Jada Pinkett's character sleeps with a guy
to make money so her brother can go to college
and I was like,
I don't know if I wanna see that.
- Yeah.
- So I passed on it
and F. Gary Gray, who directed it, I was directing
music videos in the 80's and he was my first AD
for my first three videos.
But he was directing it and I was (mumbling)
but why didn't you say no, I said,
you know actually I didn't finish reading the script.
(laughing)
(mumbling) Said, you need to finish reading the script
and when I read it I saw the love story between
Jada and Keith the banker that I played
and I thought that was a nice balance but also understood
what, the story they were telling about these four
sisters that is a love story,
that is of friendship and of loyalty
and being there for each other.
And that was one of the mistakes that I made
that I never made again.
If I pass on something, I wanna make sure I read it
and understand it from beginning to end because
it's one of the decisions I made I'm most grateful for
because people reference that movie to this day.
- Mm-hmm.
- And the fact that Jada and I were able to portray
this black love story in the midst of such chaos.
He was her refuge out of this chaos.
I'm very proud of that to have been part of it.
- It's so good.
I would say that you are pretty much established as
a heart throb,
I would say, - Oh Lord.
in Hollywood.
Should we take a vote, everybody agrees.
Everyone agrees with me,
y'all couldn't see it but it's true.
Does your ability to make so many people feel things
romantically in these scenes, does it just come from
your natural suaveness?
Is it just like, oh all I gotta do is be seductive,
no problem, I got that or does it come from,
is it the script? - My man is laughing
over here behind the cameras.
(laughing)
- I mean, I know that okay,
I self-identify as kind of awkward, kinda goofy.
Lovable, very charming.
- Very lovable.
- But if I, thank you, if I had to act out a love scene
or just pretend to like somebody on screen,
I just feel like I would be so uncomfortable
and just be the goofiest thing in the world.
- It can be.
- Is it ever tough for you?
- Well, I don't know if it's tough, it can be uncomfortable.
I mean especially if you don't know somebody.
- Yeah.
(laughing)
- Speaking of "Set it Off" we had a love scene
and Jada had a body double 'cause she--
- [Tracy] Oh!
- Yeah, she made the choice and understandably
and people do that.
- Uh-huh.
So that she wouldn't have to act out, do the love scenes?
- Some of the physical stuff.
No well, the physical body parts, which I respect
and I absolutely get that.
- [Tracy] Uh-huh.
- So literally this actress comes in and is like,
hi nice to meet you and jump right in the bed and do all
the physical stuff so. - Wow!
Yeah, it can be awkward sometimes.
- So, speaking of romantic roles, you joined the cast
of a show called "Sex and the City".
- Mm.
- In it's final season and you are the love interest
of the red headed one, who's name--
- Cynthia Nixon.
- Yes!
- Miranda, yeah. - Yes, yes, yes.
- Had you been a fan of the show,
before you took the role?
- I'd be lying if I said yes, no.
- That's fair.
- I just knew whenever that came on I wouldn't have any,
you know, my wife was like,
I can't even deal with you right now.
I'm focused on "Sex and the City".
(laughing)
That was before I think even,
DVR was a, maybe we had it but we weren't doing it too much.
- What made you say yes to the role?
- Honestly, she said,
(laughing) she said you should do this.
(laughing)
No again, I mean honestly I said no first.
- Yeah?
- Two years prior because there was an episode if you saw,
if you know, "Sex and the City"
where Kim Cattrall's character,
the fast one wanted to be with a black man
and was all about the curiosity of what's a black man like,
are the rumors true and all that and I said thank you but
no thank you, I appreciate it, I'm honored.
I mean that, I don't take that lightly
when people offer you a job.
- Yeah.
- But I said I'm not interested in being black curiosity.
- [Tracy] Yeah.
- But thank you.
So two years later they came back and said,
you know, and offered to come join the show and I said,
well is it gonna be about his race?
- Mm-hmm.
- Or is he gonna be able to be a human being?
- [Tracy] Yeah.
- They said no he's just a doctor that's in her building
that she meets in the elevator and they hit it off.
- So a normal person?
- Normal person, yeah.
But that was important.
That's been a long, since the beginning of my career,
a conversation that I don't wanna be the black guy.
- [Tracy] Yeah.
- Even though I was the token
but you're gonna be forced to deal with my,
I keep going back to the word humanity
'cause that's really what it is, it encompasses everything.
- Yeah.
- Not just your race, not just your gender,
not just your profession, not just your, you know,
your nationality but everything that you are.
So they said, yeah, we're not even,
we don't wanna deal with that.
And I think I did five episode long, I did five episodes,
I think they mentioned it once.
'Cause it's obvious, you gonna have to talk about the black
guy, you know. - Yeah, yeah.
It's obvious what you are.
- [Tracy] Mm-hmm.
- Yeah so it was, that was a lot of fun
and again, I'm glad I said yes to that 'cause
I didn't watch the show you know,
so I didn't know but I had no idea that show was as popular
as it was and still is.
- Yeah.
- I'm very taken with your, with the ease with which
you seem to turn down roles and big chances.
Did you have to learn to say no?
Did you have to learn that it was an option that you have?
'Cause I remember Beyonce saying in "Homecoming",
which I'm assuming that you've seen.
If you haven't, just don't don't watch it.
But she was talking about having to,
she didn't understand that she could say no at times
in her career and I'm just like, you're Beyonce,
you should know it but I think it speaks to you know,
a lot of times we are so conditioned to not having a choice,
you know.
I know that I've had to learn how to say no.
- That's a good point.
- Yeah.
So did it always come naturally to you,
was it something that you had to work on?
- Well you know I was 21 when "L.A. Law" started.
I was 21 so I was right out of college.
I mean I would tell you I was too young and dumb,
to be scared.
(laughing) Early on,
I didn't know that you can't say no.
- Right.
- You know you figure, you know,
you've got your life ahead of you.
So then things started to happen and then you have,
you know you have a foundation to speak to and have
credence and credibility to say,
you know I've built this so I don't wanna go
down that path so therefore I'm gonna say no.
But bigger than that, it's a faith walk.
- [Tracy] Yeah.
- Much bigger than that, it's a faith walk.
And it's really about saying I'm not gonna put my
future and my happiness in the hands of a studio executive
or a network executive or an agent or a manager
because you're not my God.
- Right.
Amen. - I mean,
if you gonna be real.
I'm serious.
It's about what I do and where I'm gonna end up,
I believe it's already preordained,
so I have to listen to that inner voice.
- Yeah.
- And not give that power over to somebody who's
getting a paycheck to produce a product.
- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
- But that's not easily done all the time.
And I recognize that.
- We must talk about your work in Ava DuVernay's,
"When They See Us".
- Love me some Ava DuVernay.
(exhaling heavily)
- I'm just so glad that she exists.
- I'm so glad she exists.
- You know.
I really, really am.
One of the things that I thought when I heard about this
project, first I was really, really excited
but I was also like, this is heavy, you know and I mean,
life is heavy sure but it just seems like we're at a place
in society where everything's on fire and you know,
trauma is just front and center in so many stories.
Was it ever draining for you to kind of exist
inside this movie and this completely unjust case?
- Oh sure, sure.
You know, it's, your point is well taken when you say
it's heavy and so many people have said, I wanna watch it or
I haven't seen all four episodes or four hours,
I started watching, it was just too heavy
and you know my retort to that is, these guys,
their lives are altered and they did years in prison.
If you're interested,
maybe we can give them at least four hours of our time.
- [Tracy] Yeah.
- But yeah it was but you know it's,
whenever you create anything of art,
a performing art, whether it's film, television, stage,
when it's heavy especially you have to have that release
valve and I will tell you as heavy as it was shooting it
because of Ava's direction and her spirit,
everybody wanted to really bring their A game.
But also you know, you work hard and you play hard so.
- Yeah.
- There was a lot of laughter on that set,
believe it or not.
Because we knew we felt like we were doing something
that was necessary and timely and relevant.
- Mm-hmm, do you have a favorite memory
from making the movie?
- Have a favorite memory?
- Mm-hmm.
- I think, I don't know a real funny memory necessarily
but just watching these young, I walked on the set the
first day and I was blown away at how young these guys were.
You know, I think the guys, they were 14, 15, 16.
So one of the actors was actually 14, I think 15,
one was 21 playing younger
but you forget that they were babies.
- They were babies.
- And as a parent now I look at these,
they were babies.
- Mm-hmm.
- So I think that's what stuck out more than anything
but also then watching these kids come as just
professional actors, slam it take after take
just putting it in, getting it in, doing the work.
Honest and raw.
So that's inspiring to me just to watch these young kids
do their thing.
- I'm always very taken by the roles that you take
and another project that you worked on last year was
"Dear White People".
Another Netflix series.
- I think my last five projects have been with Netflix,
actually, yeah. - Oh really?
- How's about that.
Netflix has been very, very good to me.
(laughing)
- I don't wanna spoil it too much for people who haven't
seen it but your character is a professor,
college campus.
- Mm-hmm.
- Gets kinda swept up in some me too-ish type stuff
with a student, a white student.
- Mm-hmm.
- So given our current political landscape,
these are conversations that people are having right now
like the abuse of power of men who are in charge
and the me-too movement and then like matters of race,
you know, black lives matter is a thing.
What was it like to portray someone in the middle of
a fictionalized account of something
that's really going on right now.
- You know Yvette Lee Bowser
was an executive producer on the show at that time,
Justin Simien created the show and she was a friend,
and she, we were at dinner together,
our families and she said, would you come on the show
and I was like, well, (laughing), well first of all yeah
'cause she's a friend so I was like yeah
if I got time, I'm there.
And she told me what the character was about so to answer
your question in terms of the
hashtag me too movement of it all,
I actually, I quite liked getting in the middle of
telling relevant stories.
- Mm-hmm.
- You know, part of my love of what I do is to entertain
but if you can provoke thought and stimulate
thought and change and be a part of that conversation.
'Cause we haven't had that conversation a lot with,
in our community.
- [Tracy] Right.
- You know, there's the Bill Cosby of it all.
- Mm-hmm.
- And that was really kind of one of the
broad stroke template of this character
'cause this character, I play Professor Brown
who is beloved by all the students
and he was a hero, to these students.
What do we do in our communities specifically
when our heroes fall?
That was the impetus of this story line.
So to, to be a part of telling that story,
from a creative standpoint, I loved being a part of it
and the reason I loved it is because it's necessary
that we have these conversations with regard to specificity
of who we are and what that means to us
and why sometimes it's harder for us because we don't
have as many heroes are we probably should have
and need to have so when one of us falls.
I like Cosby, it's like what do we do with that?
- Yeah.
- Where do we put that?
Who do we look to?
Do we look within ourselves?
Do we look to other people?
Do we look to our parents?
Do we look to ourselves as leaders in our community,
our homes, our families?
So I love being a part of those conversations
so to portray a character, I, you know,
he would probably now, I mean it's been out so if
you haven't seen it yet so.
(laughing) I won't spoil it.
I don't mind playing bad guys.
- Mm-hmm.
People say, why you always playing bad guys,
I say, well you don't really know my body of work 'cause
I play a lot of good guys, the first 10 years
but some people say, you always play the bad guy.
First of all, bad guys are more interesting to play.
- [Tracy] Mm-hmm.
- Because there's mystique.
Good guys, you know what you're gonna get.
- Yeah.
- Bad guys, you don't always know.
So, I love that. - Right, right.
So this would be considered a quote unquote bad guy.
Let's get under the layers, that's what I enjoy doing.
Let's uncover, let's mine what's underneath that
to find out, why do people act that way?
- That's why I always have to explain to people why
I'm so interested in serial killers and there always like,
are you a serial killer and I'm like--
- Me too!
(gasping)
What!
- We could've been talking about serial killers
the whole time.
- I'm, I'm, have a morbid fascination with
what goes wrong in a brain.
- Right!
How does one, how does one get to the point where you got
body parts in your freezer?
- I played a serial killer.
(gasping)
The exploration, there's a movie called "Just Cause"
with Sean Connery and Lawrence Fishburn and Ed Harris
and a young Scarlett Johansson at 10 years old.
- Wow.
- But yeah, that exploration.
- Uh-huh.
- Was crazy.
- You have another upcoming Netflix mini-series
about the life of a one Madam C.J. Walker.
- Yeah.
- It's a period piece, I love period pieces.
- I love period pieces.
- And I feel like there are not enough black ones.
I don't know if that's true, it's probably true.
- It's true but it's happening more and more.
- [Tracy] Yes.
- Partially because of Netflix and the streaming services.
- Mm-hmm.
What are you most excited for people to see
in this mini-series?
- Octavia Spencer for one, she plays Madam C.J. Walker.
Academy award winning Octavia Spencer (muffled speaking).
- Academy award winning indeed.
- And Tiffany Haddish is in it as well,
she plays her daughter.
And Garrett Morris and Bill Bellamy.
You know, what I'm most excited for the people to see
is the story itself.
It's called "Self Made" 'cause they have a new title now
but "Self Made" the life and time or legacy of
inspired by Madam C.J. Walker.
- [Tracy] Mm-hmm.
- But you know this was a woman, for those who don't know,
who was the first self-made female millionaire
in our country.
Not black, not white, the first female self-made
millionaire, in other words she did not inherit it,
she worked for it and she built it and she did that
by creating black hair care products for
African American women at the time.
This was the early 1900's, she died in 1919.
So this was extraordinary, she lived right next door
to John Rockefeller so she was balling out of control.
- I didn't realize that.
- This is what I'm saying, there's so much about her life
we don't even realize so, for people to just kind of see
her life and understand who she was,
looking forward to.
So my character is C.J. Walker.
- [Tracy] Yeah.
- So her name was actually Sarah Breedlove
and that is a sign of the times 'cause she was known
in relationship to her man, Mrs. C.J. Walker,
Madam C.J. Walker.
But their relationship is very interesting because
he was a salesman and a marketer and
so they kinda fed off each other and you know,
they had a life and issues as you can imagine.
That's the good drama.
- [Tracy] Mm, mm.