>> YOU, OF COURSE, KNOW THAT
THE DETROIT AREA, SOME OF THE
LARGEST MIDDLE EASTERN COMMUNITY
OUTSIDE OF THE MIDDLE EAST. EVEN IF YOU HAVE NO TIES TO THE
EVEN IF YOU HAVE NO TIES TO THE
MIDDLE EAST, BUT FOOD VIRTUE OF
LIVING IN DETROIT COMES FROM
LEBANON.
AND THE NATION OF LEBANON IS NEAR COLLAPSE.
NEAR COLLAPSE.
IS THERE ANY KIND OF TURNAROUND
ON THE HORIZON.
NASSER BEYDOUN IS FROM THE ARAB
AMERICAN CIVIL RIGHTS LEAGUE AND OSAMA SIBLANI IS THE PUBLISHER
OSAMA SIBLANI IS THE PUBLISHER
OF THE ARAB AMERICAN NEWS.
YOU’RE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE OTHER MIDDLE EASTERN CRISIS.
OTHER MIDDLE EASTERN CRISIS.
AND OSAMA, YOU JUST GOT BACK
FROM LEBANON. AND THE BLACK HUMOR JOKE, IF
AND THE BLACK HUMOR JOKE, IF
YOU’RE IN LINE FOR BREAD, AND
THE MONEY YOU HAD IN LINE IS NO
LONGER ENOUGH FOR WHAT YOU’VE
GOT. HOW BAD IS IT?
HOW BAD IS IT?
>> THANK YOU, DEVIN, I CAME BACK
FROM LEBANON, AND I WATCHED PEOPLE WAITING IN LINE FOR HOURS
PEOPLE WAITING IN LINE FOR HOURS
AND HOURS, AND PEOPLE IN THEIR
CARS AND MILES AND MILES OF CARS
THAT ARE WAITING FOR THE GAS
STATIONS OR THE BAKERY. I’VE SEEN THIS IN MY EYES, I
I’VE SEEN THIS IN MY EYES, I
JUST CAME BACK LAST NIGHT AND
YES, IT’S TRUE THAT THE CURRENCY
EXCHANGE RATE TO THE DOLLAR, IT FLUCTUATES, YOU KNOW, LIKE
FLUCTUATES, YOU KNOW, LIKE
WITHIN HOURS, WITHIN A FEW
MINUTES, IT FLUCTUATES BACK AND
FORTH.
SO, IT IS PRETTY BAD SITUATION,
BUT I AM -- I THINK THAT THE
SITUATION IS GOING TO GET BETTER SOON BECAUSE IT CANNOT GET ANY
SOON BECAUSE IT CANNOT GET ANY
WORSE THAN THAT.
>> Devin: WELL, LET’S SEE IF
NASSER AGREES WITH YOU, OSAMA. NASSER, YOU HAVE BEEN VERY, VERY
NASSER, YOU HAVE BEEN VERY, VERY
CRITICAL OF WHAT YOU BELIEVE ARE
ALL SELF-INFLICTED WOUNDS. >> IT’S NOT SELF--
>> IT’S NOT SELF--
WELL, THE LAST 30 YEARS WE HAVE
WAR LORDS AND A CORRUPT
POLITICAL CLASS WHO IS IN THE BED WITH THE MONOPOLY THAT
BED WITH THE MONOPOLY THAT
CONTROL LEBANON AND FOR 30 YEARS
THEY BASICALLY RAPED AND
PILLAGED THE COUNTRY AND THEY’VE
GOTTEN TO A POINT NOW WHERE
THEY’VE BANKRUPTED THE SYSTEM. THEY HAVEN’T BEEN ABLE TO
THEY HAVEN’T BEEN ABLE TO
PROVIDE WATER, ELECTRICITY,
THEY’VE DESTROYED THE
ENVIRONMENT.
THEY’VE KILLED THE BANKING
SECTOR, THEY’VE KILLED THE TOURISM SECTOR, THE AGRICULTURAL
TOURISM SECTOR, THE AGRICULTURAL
SECTOR, SO ALL OF THESE THINGS
CAME TO A CULMINATION THIS YEAR OR LAST YEAR AND IT JUST
OR LAST YEAR AND IT JUST
EXPLODED AND YOU KNOW PEOPLE
HAVE LOST THEIR LIFE SAVING. AS OSAMA SAID, THE CURRENCY HAS
AS OSAMA SAID, THE CURRENCY HAS
GONE FROM 1500LYRA TO ONE DOLLAR
TO OVER 20,000 TO ONE DOLLAR PER
YEAR.
AND SHORTAGES OF FLOUR, GAS, BASIC NECESSITY AND THEN THEY
BASIC NECESSITY AND THEN THEY
HAD THE PORT EXPLOSION THAT
HAPPENED AUGUST 4TH LAST YEAR WHERE OVER AMMONIUM NITRATE
WHERE OVER AMMONIUM NITRATE
ALMOST WIPED OUT ALL OF BEIRUT.
AND LAST WEEK EXPLOSION WHERE
PEOPLE WERE TRYING TO GET FUEL
THAT KILLED 24 PEOPLE. SO THE COUNTRY IS A MESS AND I,
SO THE COUNTRY IS A MESS AND I,
UNLIKE OSAMA, I’M NOT OPTIMISTIC
AS LONG AS THIS CORRUPT
POLITICAL CLASS CONTINUES TO RUN THE COUNTRY.
THE COUNTRY.
>> Devin: OWE SAKSAMAOSAMA, DO Y
TAKE A SHOT?
>> I TOTALLY AGREE WITH NASSER.
I BELIEVE THAT CORRUPTION IS THE PROBLEM IN LEBANON AND
PROBLEM IN LEBANON AND
ACCOUNTABILITY DOESN’T EXIST.
I THINK THE PROBLEM IS NOT WITH
INDIVIDUALS, I THINK THAT THE
PROBLEM IS MORE THAN AN
INDIVIDUAL AND POLITICAL PARTIES AND LEADERSHIP.
AND LEADERSHIP.
I THINK IT IS THE SYSTEM ITSELF.
IT’S, I THINK, THE WAY THAT WE
ARE IN LEBANON SEE GOVERNMENT COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN THE
COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN THE
WAY WE SEE IT IN THE IDEA.
AND THIS IS A SECTARIAN BASED
POLITICAL SYSTEM THAT EACH, YOU
KNOW, RELIGIOUS GROUP OR POLITICAL PARTY PROTECT ITS OWN
POLITICAL PARTY PROTECT ITS OWN
PEOPLE AND THEREFORE, THE
CORRUPTION STARTS FROM THE
BOTTOM ALL THE WAY UP.
I BELIEVE THAT THE WAY THAT THIS SHOULD BE ADDRESSED HAS CHANGED
SHOULD BE ADDRESSED HAS CHANGED
THE POLITICAL SYSTEM IN LEBANON
TO BE A COMPREHENSIVE SYSTEM
THAT BASED ON CITIZENSHIP, NOT
SECTARIANISM AND I BELIEVE EVERYBODY IS TALKING ABOUT IT
EVERYBODY IS TALKING ABOUT IT
RIGHT NOW.
WE SHOULD, YOU KNOW, I THINK
THAT THE LEBANESE PEOPLE BELIEVE
THAT THEY SHOULD BE REVISITING
THE WAY THAT LEBANON IS STRUCTURED AT THIS TIME.
STRUCTURED AT THIS TIME.
>> NASSER, I’M CURIOUS WHAT YOU
THINK THE RIPPLE EFFECTS HERE
COULD BE. LEBANON HAS ALWAYS HAD AN OUT
LEBANON HAS ALWAYS HAD AN OUT
SIZED INFLUENCE AS HEADQUARTERS
AND HOME FOR HAMAS AND
HEZBOLLAH, AMERICANS AND ISRAEL
IN PARTICULAR ALWAYS DEEPLY
FOCUSED ON WHAT’S GOING ON IN LEBANON.
WHAT IS THE POTENTIAL FOR
TURMOIL IN LEBANON TO CREATE
FURTHER INSTABILITY ACROSS THE
MIDEAST?
WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU STATED EARLIER THAT THE MIDDLE EAST
EARLIER THAT THE MIDDLE EAST
DOESN’T NEED ANY MORE
INSTABILITY.
WE SEE WHAT’S HAPPENING IN
AFGHANISTAN TODAY, IN SYRIA, YEMEN AND IRAQ AND LEBANON IS IN
YEMEN AND IRAQ AND LEBANON IS IN
A UNIQUE POSITION.
LEBANON HAS ALWAYS BEEN KIND OF
THIS--
WE’VE SUFFERED THROUGH 25 YEARS OF CIVIL WAR.
OF CIVIL WAR.
WE HAD AN ERA WHERE, YOU KNOW,
PEOPLE -- PEOPLE THOUGHT THINGS
WERE GETTING BETTER ABOUT YOU
THEN WE HAD THE DEVASTATING WAR
OF 2006 BETWEEN HEZBOLLAH AND ISRAEL.
SO, YOU KNOW, LEBANON IS A FLASH
POINT.
YOU’VE GOT PALESTINIANS LIVING
IN REFUGEES.
YOU’VE GOT OVER A MILLION AND A HALF SYRIAN REFUGEES, YOU’VE GOT
HALF SYRIAN REFUGEES, YOU’VE GOT
HEZBOLLAH A COUNTERFORCE TO
ISRAEL.
YOU HAVE SO MANY PLAYERS AND SO
MANY DIFFERENT THINGS THAT ANYTHING CAN TRIGGER, YOU KNOW--
ANYTHING CAN TRIGGER, YOU KNOW--
LEBANON COULD BE ON THE CUSP OF
A CIVIL WAR.
ANYTHING, IT COULD HAPPEN. >> DEVIN, I BELIEVE THAT
>> DEVIN, I BELIEVE THAT
HEZBOLLAH IS ONE OF THE MOST
STABLE FACTORS-- STABLE FACTORS IN LEBANON.
STABLE FACTORS IN LEBANON.
>> Devin: IT DOESN’T COMFORT
ISRAEL OR PRO ISRAELIS.
>> THEY HAVE TO CHOOSE THEIR OWN COURSE OF ACTION, BUT I BELIEVE
COURSE OF ACTION, BUT I BELIEVE
THAT HEZBOLLAH’S POSITION IN
LEBANON AND THE STRENGTH THEY
HAVE FOR THE RESISTANCE
PREVENTED ISRAEL FROM TAKING
MILITARY JOURNEYS IN LEBANON AND DESTROYING THE COUNTRY.
DESTROYING THE COUNTRY.
THAT’S FOR SURE.
NOW, I BELIEVE THAT HEZBOLLAH IS
NOT THE CAUSE OF THIS ISSUE.
HEZBOLLAH IS THE LEAST CORRUPT POLITICAL PARTY IN LEBANON.
POLITICAL PARTY IN LEBANON.
THE POLITICAL SYSTEM IN LEBANON
HAS TO BE REVISITED FOR SURE.
>> Devin: BUT WHILE WERE YOU
THERE, I THINK AS A SYMBOL OF HOW SERIOUSLY AMERICA IS WORRIED
HOW SERIOUSLY AMERICA IS WORRIED
ABOUT THIS, I BELIEVE IT’S YOUR
UNDERSTANDING THE HEAD OF THE
CIA WAS IN LEBANON WHILE YOU
WERE THERE.
>> CORRECT, WILLIAM BYRNES WAS
THERE AND HE MET WITH THE ARMY CHIEF, WITH THE INTELLIGENCE
CHIEF, WITH THE INTELLIGENCE
CHIEF AND ALSO WITH THE SECURITY
NATIONAL SECURITY CHIEF, AND
THEY WERE VERY HAPPY WITH THE
AMERICAN POSITION. I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE UNITED
I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE UNITED
STATES IS, YOU KNOW, IS PUSHING
FOR A TOTAL COLLAPSE.
CERTAINLY, THE UNITED STATES IS GOING AFTER HEZBOLLAH AND ITS
GOING AFTER HEZBOLLAH AND ITS
WEAPONS AND THAT’S AN ISRAELI,
YOU KNOW, POLITICAL GOAL THAT
THEY NEED TO REMOVE THE WEAPONS OF HEZBOLLAH FROM THEIR HANDS
OF HEZBOLLAH FROM THEIR HANDS
FOR THE COUNTRY TO CONTINUE
TOTAL CONTROL OF THE SITUATION
IN THE MIDDLE EAST.
BUT I BELIEVE THAT THE UNITED
STATES IS GETTING READY RIGHT
NOW TO TAKE SOME ACTION. I AM--
I AM--
YOU KNOW, I’M SURPRISED THAT
WHAT’S HAPPENING IN AFGHANISTAN
IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, IN FACT,
IN LEBANON AND OTHER AREAS,
SYRIA AND ALSO IN IRAQ. I BELIEVE THAT THE UNITED STATES
I BELIEVE THAT THE UNITED STATES
SHOULD PULL OUT.
THEY DO NOT KNOW HOW TO BUILD
NATIONS.
WE DO NOT KNOW HOW TO BUILD NATIONS, WE KNOW HOW TO DESTROY
NATIONS, WE KNOW HOW TO DESTROY
NATIONS VERY WELL, BUT WE’RE NOT
VERY, NOT SUITED TO BUILD
NATIONS.
>> Devin: THE TRACK RECORD SO
FAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST DOESN’T
HAVE A LOT TO HANG ITS HAT ON FOR SURE.
FOR SURE.
LASTLY, NASSER, I’VE GOT JUST A
FEW SECONDS LEFT HERE.
NOW, ISRAEL AND THE U.S. ARE
VERY CONCERNED THAT A SHIPMENT OF FUEL IS COMING INTO LEBANON
OF FUEL IS COMING INTO LEBANON
FROM IRAQ AND--
>> IRAN.
>> Devin: I’M SORRY, IRAN, YEAH,
NOT IRAQ.
IRAN.
I SUPPOSE IF YOU’RE -- IF YOU’VE
GOT A SHORTAGE OF FUEL YOU TAKE
FUEL WHEREVER YOU CAN GET IT,
BUT THAT’S ALSO GOING TO CAUSE
SOME CONSTERNATION, ISN’T IT?
>> IT IS.
IT WILL CAUSE A LOT OF ISSUES.
IF THE U.S. IS WORRIED ABOUT IT,
THEY SHOULD SEND FUEL TO
LEBANON. YOU HAVE TO HELP THE LEBANESE,
YOU HAVE TO HELP THE LEBANESE,
IF YOU DON’T HAVE ELECTRICITY,
WATER, FUEL TO COOK, WHAT ARE
YOU GOING TO DO?
YOU’RE GOING TO TRY TO GET IT
FROM ANYWHERE, IF HEZBOLLAH CAN
DELIVER, THAT BOOSTS THEIR POSITION IN THE COUNTRY.
POSITION IN THE COUNTRY.
IF, YOU KNOW, IF SOMEBODY ELSE
CAN DELIVER, THEN IF AMERICA
WANTS TO HELP LEBANON, YOU KNOW, THEY NEED TO BASICALLY MAKE SURE
THEY NEED TO BASICALLY MAKE SURE
THAT THEY HELP THE LEBANESE
PEOPLE AND NOT THE POLITICAL
CLASS.
>> Devin: NASSER BEYDOUN, OSAMA
SIBLANI, HOPEFULLY WE’LL SEE YOU
IN PERSON AGAIN REAL SOON.
>> THANKS, DEVIN.
>> Devin: BACK WITH MORE ON FLASH POINT AFTER THIS.
Another day, another chance.