THE UPSIDE OF DONALD TRUMP ATTACKING ALL MUSLIMS, SAYING
THERE SHOULD BE A TOTAL BAN, IS THAT HE HAS GOTTEN SOME PEOPLE,
EVEN ON FOX NEWS LIKE BILL O'REILLY, TO DEFEND MUSLIMS.
ON
THE OTHER HAND, THE DOWNSIDE IS THAT HE HAS NOW MADE THIS INTO A
DEBATE.
NO, NO -- THIS IS NOT A DEBATABLE ISSUE.
YOU CAN'T BAN
EVERYBODY FROM ONE RELIGION, THAT IS THE MOST UN-AMERICAN
THING YOU CAN DO.
IT IS IN OUR CONSTITUTION, THAT WE HAVE
FREEDOM OF RELIGION AND ALL RELIGIONS ARE WELCOME.
IT'S THE
CORE OF AMERICA.
BUT NOPE, NOW WE'RE HAVING A DEBATE ABOUT IT.
SO AFTER O'REILLY YELLS AT TRUMP, HE BRINGS ON TWO
OTHER FOX HOSTS WHO AGREE WITH TRUMP, AND THEY PROCEED TO
HAVE A LEGITIMATE DEBATE OVER IT.
IF YOU BAN ALL MUSLIMS, YOU HURT YOURSELF IN THE WAR
AGAINST JIHAD, BECAUSE YOU NEED THOSE NATIONS LIKE JORDAN
AND MOROCCO AND EGYPT AND TURKEY TO HELP YOU.
BECAUSE IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE THEIR HELP, BILL, THIS WAR
AGAINST RADICAL ISLAMIC TERRORISM WOULD LAST, WHAT, 14
YEARS WITHOUT WINNING?
WE HAVEN'T WON IN AFGHANISTAN.
BUT WE HAVEN'T FOUGHT.
AND WE HAVE HAD THEIR HELP.
HE DIDN'T RETREAT AT ALL ON ANY POINT.
HE NEVER DOES.
HE DID WHAT HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO DO.
PRESIDENT OBAMA
CREATED A VACUUM ON SUNDAY NIGHT BY SAYING NOTHING, TRUMP JUMPS
IN WITH A STRONG STATEMENT AND DOES NOT BACK OFF AT ALL.
HE DID
NOT BACK OFF WITH YOU IN THE SLIGHTEST, AND WHEN YOU
CHALLENGED HIM AND SAID YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE ARAB NATIONS'
SUPPORT IN ORDER TO GET THIS WAR WON, HE CAME BACK AT YOU AND
SAID NOTHING FOR NOTHING.
HOW DID YOU KNOW IT IS HURTING US?
YOU SEE THAT, IF YOU DON'T BACK OFF THAT MEANS YOU ARE
RIGHT.
EXCELLENT COUNTERPOINT, STUART.
AND LOU DOBBS, 14 YEARS
WE HAVE BEEN FIGHTING THIS -- BUT YOU ARE THE ONE WHO WANTED
TO GO INTO IRAQ IN THE FIRST PLACE, NOW YOU ARE BELLYACHING
ABOUT IT?
WE DIDN'T WIN?
I THOUGHT YOU TOLD ME BUSH WON, HE
HUNG THE MISSION ACCOMPLISHED BANNER, NOW YOU ARE TELLING ME
WE DIDN'T WIN.
WHAT IS YOUR ANSWER?
I DON'T KNOW, BAN ALL
MUSLIMS.
IT IS PREPOSTEROUSLY STUPID, BUT HERE WE ARE IN THE
MIDDLE OF A DEBATE.
BOTH OF YOU MUST KNOW THAT GEOPOLITICALLY, TO WIN A WAR
AGAINST A DECENTRALIZED ENEMY LIKE ISIS, IT IS NOT A COUNTRY.
YOU NEED AS MANY PEOPLE ON THE GROUND CLOSE TO THEM AS
POSSIBLE.
YOU CANNOT SAY TO THE KING OF JORDAN, YOU AND YOUR
COUNTRYMEN CAN'T COME HERE, AND EXPECT THEM TO HELP YOU.
YOU CAN NEITHER ALLOW PEOPLE TO COME INTO THIS COUNTRY
WITHOUT KNOWING WHO THEY ARE --
NOBODY IS QUESTIONING STRONG VETTING.
VET THEM.
WHY HAVE WE NOT?
BECAUSE OF THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION'S INCOMPETENCE.
IT IS ABOUT BEING SMART, BUT NOT HOW YOU THINK.
IT IS NOT BEING UNSMART IF YOU CHALLENGE THESE PEOPLE AND
SAY YOU ARE NOT COMING HERE UNTIL WE FIGURE OUT WHO YOU ARE.
YOU ARE BOTH SAYING TO ME THAT YOU BOTH AGREE WITH DONALD
TRUMP THAT ALL MUSLIMS IN THE WORLD SHOULD BE BANNED FROM
COMING HERE UNTIL WE FIGURE IT OUT?
WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT HE IS RIGHT ABOUT PAUSING THE
IMMIGRATION AND REFUGEE PROGRAMS OF THIS COUNTRY UNTIL WE KNOW
WHAT THE HELL WE ARE DOING AND CAN ASSURE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
THAT A K-1 VISA --
THAT IS DIFFERENT THAN A MUSLIM BAN.
IT IS DIFFERENT, BUT IT HAS THE SAME EFFECT.
I'M NOT SAYING WE SHOULDN'T BE SMART, BUT WE SHOULD SAY, WAIT A
MINUTE, LET'S CHALLENGE THESE PEOPLE.
WHAT ABOUT THAT WAS
SMART?
OKAY, GENIUS, YOU FIGURED IT OUT.
WE SHOULD JUST STOP ALL
THE MUSLIMS AND YELL AT THEM LIKE, WE ARE GOING TO CHALLENGE
YOU?
WHAT ARE WE CHALLENGING THEM TO?
WE ALREADY HAVE A
PROCESS -- YOU KNOW HOW LONG IT TAKES TO GET REFUGEE STATUS IN
AMERICA?
ON AVERAGE, CLOSE TO TWO YEARS.
WE HAVE THE
HARDEST VETTING PROCESS IN THE WORLD.
THAT IS NOT WHAT THEY'RE
TALKING ABOUT.
ALL THREE OF THEM FIND IT TO BE INCOMPETENT.
NOT
NEARLY ENOUGH.
WE SHOULD MAKE THEM WAIT FOR DECADES BEFORE
THEY ARE ALLOWED IN THE COUNTRY.
NO, TRUMP IS TALKING ABOUT A
TOTAL BAN, AND THESE GUYS ARE LIKE, YES.
WE NEED TO STOP ALL
THE IMMIGRANTS.
SAID STUART VARNEY, WHO IS CLEARLY NOT BORN
IN THE U.S.
I MEANT ALL THE IMMIGRANTS THAT ARE NOT LIKE ME,
BUT THAT ARE THOSE PEOPLE.
I DON'T WANT TO BE UNSMART.
TOO
LATE.
MORE OF THIS DEBATE NOW ON MSNBC.
CHRIS HAYES DID A GREAT
JOB OF CHALLENGING STEVE KING, THE REPUBLICAN FROM IOWA.
I DON'T WANT TO TAKE ANYTHING AWAY FROM HIM, BUT WE ARE
STUCK IN THE MIDDLE OF A STUPID DEBATE WE SHOULD NOT BE HAVING.
YOU DIDN'T AGREE WITH IT BUT YOU ARE GLAD IT OPENED UP
SPACE TO BE DEBATED ON THE MERITS?
CAN YOU ELABORATE WHAT YOU MEANT?
YES, I MEAN THE POLITICALLY CORRECT ENFORCEMENT OUT THERE IN
OUR SOCIETY HAS TIGHTENED THINGS DOWN TO THE POINT WHERE PEOPLE
JUST WALK ON EGGSHELLS AND ARE AFRAID TO ADDRESS THINGS THAT
ARE ON THEIR MINDS.
DONALD TRUMP HAS OPENED THIS UP WIDE, HAS MADE
A BOLD STATEMENT, AND WALKED IT BACK A LITTLE WHEN HE SAID IT IS
TEMPORARY.
BUT THAT LETS US ALL HAVE AN OPEN CONVERSATION ABOUT
WHAT THIS MIGHT MEAN IF TRUMP GETS HIS WAY, OR HOW WE
MIGHT MAKE AMERICAN PEOPLE SAFER.
LISTEN TO WHAT STEVE KING SAID.
I WILL QUOTE HERE AGAIN --
AND THIS IS HOW IT STARTS.
SHOULD WE BE HAVING A DEBATE, AS
CHRIS HAYES ASKED LATER, ABOUT WHETHER WE SHOULD LET THE JEWS
INTO THE COUNTRY?
NO, THAT IS NOT A DEBATE TO HAVE.
SHOULD WE
HAVE A DEBATE ABOUT WHETHER WE SHOULD LET THE MUSLIMS INTO THE
COUNTRY?
NO, THAT IS NOT A DEBATE TO HAVE.
SOME THINGS ARE
NOT DEBATABLE.
BUT TRUMP, BY GOING SO INSANELY RIGHT-WING,
HAS OPENED UP THESE DEBATES AND THIS PANDORA'S BOX.
A LOT OF
TERRORISTS HAVE ALREADY FLOWN OUT OF IT.
GOD KNOWS WHAT IS AT
THE BOTTOM OF THAT THING, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE WE ARE NOWHERE NEAR
THE BOTTOM.
AND HE HAS SUNK OUR COUNTRY INTO THIS DARK PLACE
WHERE WE ARE HAVING DISCUSSIONS ABOUT TOPICS LIKE THIS WE WOULD
HAVE NEVER DREAMED ABOUT BEFORE AS DECENT AMERICANS.