Hey everybody.
A lot of you have asked me about my please do not touch sticker
on my computer.
And so today we're going to talk about just that.
I have with me Richard McCoy, who's
trained as an art conservator.
But now he works on sort of general architectural
conservation preservation.
Is that about right?
I like to say cultural heritage.
And that's kind of a funny word, but it captures most
everything.
So Richard, I said you were trained as an art conservator.
But what is an art conservator?
RICHARD MCCOY: Art conservators are kind
of the art doctors in a museum.
They are the folks that work to restore paintings,
to fix sculptures, to take care of costumes and textiles.
They're the folks that get to touch
the artworks in the museum and to try
to make them look better.
So you're the person who has to deal with it,
when other people do touch things they shouldn't.
That's right.
I used to be a curator in a museum.
And I had a stack of stickers that said, "please do not
touch" in my drawer.
And every time somebody would touch
something they weren't supposed to in the museum,
I'd get a call.
And then I'd sort of scamper up to the galleries
and put it down, as a first line of defense.
Just before we put up a barrier, let's ask them nicely.
Please don't touch.
I put the sticker on my computer because I thought it was funny,
and because I didn't want people to touch my computer.
But it's also indicative of a wider trend of mixed messages
out in the art world.
Where they tell you you can't touch it,
but sometimes you can.
It's confusing.
So Richard, let's go through a bunch of artworks
and say whether we can touch them and we can't touch them.
How about it?
Great.
This is going to be fun.
Let's figure out what we can touch.
SARAH URIST GREEN: OK, here is a large outer sculpture
by Henry Moore, outside the National Gallery in Washington.
Can touch or can't touch?
RICHARD MCCOY: Well, it's made of bronze.
And if you were to go up and touch it,
maybe your little fingers wouldn't do a lot to it.
But then imagine 1,000 people doing that, every single day.
Next thing you know, there'd be this big gigantic swipe
mark on it, from everybody touching it.
So to help it last longer, don't touch.
SARAH URIST GREEN: OK, next up, Marcel Duchamp's bicycle wheel.
Can touch or can't touch?
RICHARD MCCOY: Do you mean, can you
go up and just sort of spin the wheel?
SARAH URIST GREEN: You want to.
RICHARD MCCOY: No.
SARAH URIST GREEN: No.
RICHARD MCCOY: I mean, I think that's part
of the fun of this piece is that it's a bicycle wheel.
And you know it moves.
And so you're just dying to go up and spin it.
But you can't.
I mean--
SARAH URIST GREEN: And it's an everyday object.
So it sort of feels like you should be able to touch it.
Again, it's not so bad if just you touch it.
But imagine 1,000 people spinning that wheel every day.
It'd be bad.
It wouldn't last very long, and then you'd destroy the artwork.
Don't touch.
How about this earthwork by Nancy Holt, "Sun Tunnels?"
RICHARD MCCOY: Yeah, you've got to get in there.
You have to touch it.
You have to interact with it and see how the light works.
It's called "Sun Tunnels," and so you want to be in there.
That's one that was designed for people to touch.
Hardly anythings going to happen.
It's going to last a long time out there in the environment,
and there's not a lot that you can do to it to damage it.
SARAH URIST GREEN: Next let's look
at this Jasper Johns piece.
Seems like you might be able to touch it.
Can I touch it?
RICHARD MCCOY: Oh man, like you want to go up and just,
like, turn that light switch on, make that flashlight go
and make it work.
SARAH URIST GREEN: But I'm guessing no.
RICHARD MCCOY: Yeah, no.
I mean, I don't even know how that flashlight's
attached to the painting.
If you go up and touch it, you know it might pop off there.
I mean, I think part of the mystery of this piece
is allowing you to sort of imagine what it would
be like with the light working.
And so it's asking you to do some work when you go see it.
But in the end, you can't touch it.
SARAH URIST GREEN: Next up is Valie Export's "Tap
and Touch Cinema."
It's a piece from 1968.
And you have to touch.
She's inviting you to touch.
She's made a cardboard box theater around herself.
And you are invited to stick your hands
in, through the curtain, and touch her naked torso.
Must touch.
RICHARD MCCOY: OK, so here's one that I think a lot of people
ask about, is Donald Judd.
He's sort of famous for these really high end finishes.
But in the end, no way, sorry.
SARAH URIST GREEN: Why not?
RICHARD MCCOY: Well, this is a really sensitive surface
that are usually in unfinished metal.
And so if you touch them once with even just
kind of a greasy fingerprint, it's
going to leave that fingerprint there.
And if it's not immediately wiped off,
it'll eventually etch into the metal.
Ugh.
An artwork that I would really like to discuss
is Ai Weiwei's "Sunflower Seeds" at the Tate Modern
that was in Turbine Hall.
And if I remember correctly, you were supposed
to be able to walk on it.
But then they had to change their tack.
Do you remember what happened?
RICHARD MCCOY: That was a really interesting project.
I really loved that piece.
And you were originally supposed to walk out on it.
But in the end, as people were walking
on those individual sunflower seeds, they were crushing them.
And the paint and dust was coming up,
and it became a health hazard.
It actually became dangerous to people's lungs.
So sometimes artists and museums have to change their approach.
They're just looking out for you.
A lot of times, museums aren't trying to be a buzzkill,
but they're trying to keep the artwork safe,
and they're trying to keep you safe.
And they have to be responsive to the way things
change and the way you interact with it.
Can we talk about one of my favorite pieces?
Of course, of course.
What is it?
Great.
I love Felix Gonzalez Torres.
Me too.
And one of the pieces that I like a lot
is the candy spill, which is a pile of candy that's
usually in a corner.
And it's the weight of his partner.
And you are supposed to go and take a piece of it.
So this is one you can touch.
There's another one that Gonzalez Torres does,
this paper piece, that's usually installed
in the middle of a gallery.
SARAH URIST GREEN: It's a stack of paper.
And you can go and you can roll one up and take one.
I usually take one, and I'll tack it up
in my apartment or whatever.
As a conservator and the guy that has to go and clean stuff,
I see those pieces and I go take them,
and I wad them up into a big--
What?
Yeah, I love to do it.
Seriously?
It's fun for me in a gallery to go and trash a piece of work
that you're allowed to trash.
And so I have this crinkled piece of paper
that then I tack on my wall.
SARAH URIST GREEN: How about Dubuffet?
Because here's an example of an artist sometimes you can touch
it, sometimes you can't.
Here's an example of some gallery
based artwork, some sculptures, where
there's plinths surrounding the sculptures,
except for that one over there.
But the plinth is telling me do not touch.
Why?
They put the plinths up there for extra protection,
to keep the structures more stable.
In the event you did touch them, you
might knock them over and hurt somebody or even the artwork.
And so sometimes it's not just about the surface,
it's about stability and making sure the artwork is safe.
I can respect that.
And also the people are safe, more importantly.
SARAH URIST GREEN: But here's an example of a Dubuffet
where you can touch it.
In fact, you're encouraged to.
You have to.
What are we looking at?
RICHARD MCCOY: This is fiberglass that's
been painted white and black.
And it's a piece that was designed to be walked on,
even though when you walk on it, you're sort of damaging it.
They know that, and they're ready to repaint it every so
often, when it needs it.
So this is one that's sort of built with a maintenance
plan around it.
SARAH URIST GREEN: All right now, what about Jeff Koons?
These look sort of like they're in the Donald Judd category,
like I probably shouldn't touch them.
RICHARD MCCOY: Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, as you can see, they're on pedestals.
So they're really trying to keep you away from them.
And that's not really for a structural stability.
That's because they know people love to try to touch these.
And it's the kind of thing, if you touch them,
you're going to leave behind grease and fingerprints.
And eventually over time, that's going to trash the surface.
Do you have a rule of thumb of when people want to touch
something and when they don't?
It's not only the kind of material it is,
but it's how close it is to touch.
So if you could imagine, things that are sort of at arm height
get touched all the time.
But it's also shiny metal things.
And it's things that people want to know what they're made of.
So that Koons is a really good example,
because is it a balloon?
Is it metal?
Is it plastic?
What is it?
Can I go up and knock on it?
It's in a sense kind of dispelling the myth of what
this sculpture is.
That's what they're trying to play with.
And I think in the end to go up and touch
it is kind of cheating.
I also feel like when there's kind
of these perfect, pristine surfaces,
you kind of want to break the law.
You kind of do want to mess it up.
But you really shouldn't.
You know Sarah, I don't think everybody
wants to break the law.
There's rule followers out there.
Really?
And so I think part of the problem
is folks understanding when they can and can't touch something.
OK.
I won't touch it.
So I'm still kind of confused.
There's a lot of mixed messages.
How can we, as an art going public, figure it out?
I think being a good citizen in a cultural institution
is the same as being a good citizen when you're out
in your own town or your own city.
So think of the cultural institutions
or the religious institutions, monuments and memorials.
This is our cultural heritage.
And if we don't take care of it,
it won't be there for future generations.
That's the point.
Richard, thanks so much for coming.
This was really great.
And I hope everybody got a lot out of it.
Well, thanks for having me.
But you know, since I'm here, can I do a mini art assignment?
Sure.
OK, so here is your extra credit art assignment.
What I want you to do is to go out and find something
that you really want to touch that you're not allowed to.
Don't touch it, but take a picture of it.
And then tell us why you want to touch it.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Oh right I've been thinking about this.
Keep it clean, you all.