>> Tucker: PETER KEEL
COFOUNDED PAYPAL.
HE WAS ONE OF THE FIRST
INVESTORS IN PACE FACEBOOK.
IF ANYONE KNOWS ABOUT THE POWER
OF TAC AND IT'S DANGEROUS, IT'S
PETER.
SO MEAN SOMETHING WHEN HE FOUND
THAT GOOGLE HAS BECOME A THREAT
TO AMERICAN NATIONAL SECURITY.
THEY MAY HAVE EVEN COMMITTED
TREASON, HE SAYS.
WHILE SPEAKING AT THE NATIONAL
CONSERVATIVES AND IN WASHINGTON,
HE SAID THAT GOOGLE MAY BE
INFILTRATED BY CHINESE
INTELLIGENCE AND OUGHT TO BE
SOMETHING INVESTIGATED BY THE
FBI AND THE CIA.
WE ARE HAPPY TO HAVE HIM JOIN US
HERE TONIGHT, THANKS A LOT FOR
COMING ON.
>> THINKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> Tucker: WHAT DID YOU MEAN
WHEN YOU SAID THAT?
SIEGEL WHILE IT WAS JUST IN THE
FORM OF A SET OF QUESTIONS I
ASKED.
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE IS
SOMETHING PEOPLE TALK ON NONSTOP
IN SILICON VALLEY BUT THEY
ALMOST NEVER TALK ABOUT THE DUAL
USE, IF IT'S REAL, IF IT'S A
REAL THING.
IT CAN ALSO BE USED BY THE
MILITARY, IT WILL BE WILL BE
WEAPONIZE AND ALL SORTS OF WAYS
AND IT'S IMPORTANT NATIONAL
SECURITY QUESTION AS TO WHO HAS
IT.
THERE'S THIS VERY PECULIAR
BACKGROUND TO WHERE GOOGLE IS
WORKING WITH THE CHINESE
COMMUNIST GOVERNMENT AND NOT
WHAT THE U.S. MILITARY SO THE
PROJECT MADE A DECISION NOT TO
WORK WITH AI, WITH THE U.S.
MILITARY, BUT THEY ARE WORKING
WITH THE COMMUNIST CHINESE AND
SO THE QUESTION IS, WHAT IN THE
WORLD IS GOING ON THERE?
I SORT OF SUGGESTED A FEW
DIFFERENT POSSIBILITIES.
BUT THEY DESCRIBED IT AS
MANHATTAN PROJECT FOR SUCH A GO
AROUND BROADCASTING THAT YOU ARE
BUILDING THE MANHATTAN PROJECT.
I WOULD THINK THIS NATURALLY
WOULD DRAW THE ATTENTION OF
FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES.
YOU KNOW, I THINK THE CHINESE
ARE CONFIDENT ENOUGH THAT THE
MINISTRY OF STATE SECURITY IS
LIKELY TO INFILTRATE GOOGLE AND
I THINK THE GOOGLE MANAGEMENT
HAS THE DECISION OF EITHER
LETTING THIS GO OUT THE FRONT
DOOR OR FIGURING IT WILL GET
STOLEN ANYWAY AND GO OUT THE
BACK DOOR.
>> Tucker: WHEN YOU SAY YOU
BELIEVE THAT THE CHINESE STATE
SECURITY IS LIKELY TO HAVE
INFILTRATED GOOGLE, WHAT WOULD
THAT LOOK LIKE?
>> IF YOU SAY YOU ARE BUILDING A
MANHATTAN PROJECT FOR AI, DON'T
YOU THINK THAT WOULD ATTRACT THE
INTEREST OF AN OF FOREIGN
INTELLIGENT?
>> Tucker: ABSOLUTELY.
JUST HIDDEN IN PLAIN SIGHT.
>> AND THEN, I THINK THERE ARE
SORT OF ALL OF THESE WAYS THAT
YOU KNOW CHINESE NATIONALS ARE
ENGAGED IN ESPIONAGE IN THE U.S.
IT'S UNDERSTANDABLE THAT CHINA'S
DOING THAT.
THEY SEE THEMSELVES IN A VERY
SERIOUS COMPETITION WITH THE
U.S. BUT WE ARE NOT PARTICULARLY
ON OUR GUARD ABOUT A AND IF YOU
HAVE SORT OF A SERIES OF SUPER
FUTURISTIC TECH PROJECTS THE
BROADCAST OF THE WHOLE WORLD,
IT'S AT LEAST SUSPICIOUS AND THE
WEIRD FACT THAT IT'S
INDISPUTABLE IS THAT GOOGLE IS
WORKING WITH COMMUNIST CHINA BUT
NOW WITH THE U.S. MILITARY ON
ITS BREAKTHROUGH IAI TECHNOLOGY.
THAT'S A QUESTION.
I THINK ONE EXPLANATION IS THEY
FORGET THEY HAVE TO BECAUSE IF
IT DOESN'T GET GIVEN TO THEM
THROUGH THE FRONT DOOR, IT WILL
GET STOLEN THROUGH THE BACKDOOR.
SO OF COURSE ANSWERS THEY HAVE
TO GET TO.
AND THEN THERE'S A BROADER BASE
OF GOOGLE EMPLOYEES WHO ARE
IDEOLOGICALLY SUPER LEFT WING,
SORT OF WOKE, AND THINK THAT
CHINA IS BETTER THAN THE U.S.
OR THAT THE U.S. IS WORSE THAN
CHINA.
IT'S ALWAYS MORE ANTI-AMERICAN
THAN ANYTHING.
>> Tucker: BUT THIS IS BY
DEFINITION A THREAT TO AMERICAN
NATIONAL SECURITY AS YOU POINT
OUT.
SO IF HE WAS SITTING RIGHT HERE,
WOOT WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO HIM?
QUESTION MARKS TO GO WELL, I
WOULD SAY ANSWER MY THREE
QUESTIONS.
HOW MANY AND FOREIGN
INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES HAVE
INFILTRATED GOOGLE?
OF THE CHINESE IN PARTICULAR
INFILTRATED?
AND WHY ARE YOU WORKING WITH THE
COMMUNIST CHINA NOT THE U.S.?
WHAT IS THE REASON YOU ARE DOING
THAT FOR?
>> Tucker: THE QUESTIONS YOU
RAISED, AND THIS IS NOT IN ANY
WAY TO, YOU KNOW THEY ARE KIND
OF OBVIOUS QUESTIONS, WHY
HAVEN'T THE U.S. GOVERNMENT
ASCERTAINED ANSWERS?
>> OTHER MIGHT BE PEOPLE IN THE
U.S. GOVERNMENT WHO HAVEN'T TOLD
US.
BUT I THINK THE FBI AND CIA
WOULD BE THAT ACTUAL PLACES TO
LOOK INTO IT.
THE FA WOULD LOOK AT IT FROM THE
DOMESTIC SIDE.
THE CA WOULD LOOK AT IT FROM THE
OUTSIDE AND WE CAN TRY TO LOOK
AT SEEING IF ON THE OUTSIDE
THERE PEOPLE CONTROLLING PEOPLE
INSIDE GOOGLE.
>> Tucker: SUCH AS SOMEONE WHO
HAS BUILT A LOT OF COMPANIES, AS
YOU HAVE, DO YOU THINK IT
WOULD'VE BEEN POSSIBLE TO
CREATE, INCUBATE, AND GROW A
COMPANY LIKE GOOGLE IN CHINA?
>> I THINK THE U.S. IS STILL
BETTER AT INNOVATION AND AT
STARTING THINGS.
BUT IT CERTAINLY COULD BE COPIED
AND REPLICATED AND SOMETHING
LIKE THIS IS TRUE OF ALL THE
BREAKTHROUGH TECHNOLOGIES WE
HAVE.
MOST OF THEM STILL ORIGINAL
LEADING AND DEVELOPING IN THE
WEST BUT THEY DON'T GIVE US MUCH
OF AN ADVANTAGE IF THEY GET
TRANSFERRED IN A MATTER OF A FEW
YEARS, IS NOT A MATTER OF
MONTHS.
SOON SO I HAVE TO ASK YOU, I
ASSUME YOU'RE WATCHING THE
DEMOCRATIC PRIMARIES UNFOLD.
WHO IS THE MOST IMPRESSIVE
CANDIDATE AND I RAISED YOU
THINK?
>> WELL, I AM THE MOST SCARED BY
ELIZABETH WARREN.
I THINK SHE IS THE ONE WHO IT
ACTUALLY IS TALKING ABOUT THE
ECONOMY WHICH IS THE ONLY THING
THAT I THINK MATTERS BY FAR THE
MOST.
AND I THINK ALMOST ALL THE
OTHERS ARE EQUALLY UNIMPRESSIVE
IN THE SENSE THAT IT'S ALL
IDENTITY POLITICS OF ONE FLAVOR
OR ANOTHER AND I WOULDN'T WANT
TO RANK HOW UNIMPRESSIVE THEY
ARE SINCE THAT WOULD BE FORCING
ME TO RANK THE DIFFERENT
IDENTITIES AND WHICH ONE IS MORE
PRIVILEGED AND MORE SPECIAL AND
THAT WOULD BE DANGEROUS TO GET
INTO.
>> Tucker: IT'S HARD TO KNOW.
IT'S HARD TO KNOW.