IAN WHELAN: All right.
We're rolling, Mike.
MIKE SPINELLI: Ian's back.
IAN WHELAN: Thanks for having me, Mike.
Again.
MIKE SPINELLI: Thanks for walking over
from behind the camera.
IAN WHELAN: It was a long walk.
MIKE SPINELLI: I know.
It's strenuous.
Today, it's another BRZ or That on After/Drive.
That's the segment we do where you guys decide
whether buying the BRZ--
the Subaru BRZ, the most-hyped sports car in the history of
sports cars--
or the other car is the move.
Today's other car is, thanks to you guys, the E36 BMW M3.
Which one?
BRZ or that.
That's today on After/Drive.
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MIKE SPINELLI: So, Ian Whelan--
what's your title?
Ian does everything, if you watch this show.
IAN WHELAN: Producing, editing, shooting, it's all--
MIKE SPINELLI: Ian does everything else--
IAN WHELAN: Whatever we need around here.
MIKE SPINELLI: --other than stumbling around on
camera that I do.
So, last time you were here, we talked about your Viggen,
your Saab Viggen.
Matched it up against the Honda S2000 and the BRZ.
What have you decided?
Have you decided on anything?
Which one are you going to get?
IAN WHELAN: Well, actually, the viewers came up with a lot
of great ideas in the thread on the last video.
And I'm still kind of considering what
you guys and said.
So I'm going to start driving some cars, see what I like.
I still really like my Viggen.
But I--
MIKE SPINELLI: It's really cool.
I actually saw yesterday.
It's a very cool car.
IAN WHELAN: Thank you.
It's a cool car.
But there are other things to try, a lot of cars out there.
MIKE SPINELLI: It's a totally different--
I mean, honestly, you couldn't get much more different.
Other than the fact that it's cool and it's in this price
range of a BRZ.
I mean, you could almost get two Viggens if
you could find them.
And that, actually, is kind of the same situation that we're
in today with the E36 BMW M3, right?
So there they are.
So this is the second generation.
Eventually came in sedan and convertible models.
Diverged quite amazingly between the American and
European version.
The European version is so much
better than the US version.
IAN WHELAN: That's the way it always is, right?
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, yeah.
Traditionally, it had been.
I mean, the E46 they were-- but don't say E46.
You guys, every time we mention the E36, a lot of you
guys are like, why not E46?
We'll get to it.
I swear, eventually, we are going to get to the E46.
It's closer in price range.
Obviously, the E36, you could probably get two good ones for
the price of a BRZ.
So it's not really about price.
IAN WHELAN: I think that it has fairly good performance,
240 horsepower.
It's not very heavy.
It's a fun drive.
And it has this great styling of a certain time of BMW that
was very clean and simple.
The E46 was still a great-looking car.
But if you see one of these today that's in really great
condition, it still looks kind of striking, I think.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
The thing about it, though, is, if you look at the
differences between the E30 M3 and the E33 series, the base
one, they really look different.
This is obviously a much bigger car, but also not that
much different from the 320i from a hundred feet.
So kind of a stealth player, a little bit.
IAN WHELAN: Yeah.
It wasn't as exotic as how the E30 was from the 325.
That was a big leap.
In the United States, this was not that exotic, going from
the 328 to the M3.
And maybe when it was new, people were
disappointed about that.
But as a car that you're buying on the used market,
that's actually maybe a good thing.
Because things are not going to be quite as finicky and
difficult to service and as expensive, maybe, as the
European counterpart would have been.
MIKE SPINELLI: So obviously, a lot of you guys are in Europe.
And you're going to have a totally different view of the
E30 generation, just because--
IAN WHELAN: And the E36.
MIKE SPINELLI: --individual throttle bodies.
That's all I'm going to say.
So we asked you guys on Facebook and Twitter what you
thought of the matchup between the E36 and the BRZ.
So, Eric Vardin.
I don't know if you use the French pronunciation.
I don't even know if I'm using the French pronunciation.
I'm just using the garbage American pronunciation.
Eric Vardin.
"For a daily driver, get the BRZ.
The E36 is much too old now.
However for a track-rat, you could probably get the M3,
strip, cage, and fully prep it for less than a new BRZ.
I've seen beat up examples for $5 grand that would make nice
track cars."
That's a really good--
OK, so--
IAN WHELAN: Yeah.
You could--
MIKE SPINELLI: Spend the extra money.
IAN WHELAN: --get a cheap M3, $5 grand if you could find it.
Redo the suspension.
Tune up the engine.
Put a racing seat in it.
And it's a track car.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right.
The only thing is, you have to actually have the cash--
IAN WHELAN: And you might want to--
MIKE SPINELLI: --to do that.
IAN WHELAN: --put a roll bar in it, or a roll cage,
depending on what you're doing.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right.
Exactly.
Well, the cool thing about the BRZ is that there're mounts
for the cage in there already when you buy it new.
So--
IAN WHELAN: It might be a little easier.
MIKE SPINELLI: It might be a little easier.
IAN WHELAN: But you've already spent a lot more money.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right.
Exactly.
But you could finance a lot of that.
Next.
This is, of course, Facebook.
Ben Peterson.
Peterson!
"For the money, E36.
Significantly more practical, and for the price of a new BRZ
you would have one heck of an M3.
Built suspension, refreshed chassis, big power, et cetera.
If you tried, an S54 swapped E36 could be done well within
the new-car
budget." All right.
So we don't want to get too deep in the weeds on the BMW
alphabet soup engine stuff.
IAN WHELAN: Engine swapping, and stuff like that.
MIKE SPINELLI: The codes will drive you insane.
Suffice to say, the S54 is the inline six out of the next
generation, the E46.
IAN WHELAN: And if you put that in, you'd have a little
bit more of what the Europeans got with the E36.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right.
Exactly.
Because the Europeans--
Yeah.
Stay out of that weeds.
IAN WHELAN: Just to makes things more confusing.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
If you want to get in the weeds, go on Bimmer forums.
All right.
Next.
Simon Bridgeford.
"E36's are not too expensive to run, are cheaper and have
more power.
The GT86 BRZ--" of course.
We're just calling all these things the BRZ, just because
that's easier--
"has less power but has a warranty.
I would take
the E36." All right.
So he kind of makes the same point everybody else makes.
IAN WHELAN: Well, if you bought a nice E36 for 10 to 15
and you don't have a warranty, you still have a lot of money
left over to service the thing if you need to.
It's just that you might have a harder time financing.
Although you could sometimes get used-car financing.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
If you buy a lower-mileage car, you could buy an
aftermarket warranty if it's under 100,000 miles, or
something like that.
70,000.
IAN WHELAN: That's a good point.
MIKE SPINELLI: So you could always do that.
So, last on Facebook--
All right, Modestas.
I don't know.
This is a Czech--
maybe Czech?
I don't know.
But I can't pronounce the c with the v.
IAN WHELAN: Mark-a-vitch-us?
Vitch-ee-us?
MIKE SPINELLI: I'm going to say Modestas Mark-a-vicious.
IAN WHELAN: It's a cool name, either way.
MIKE SPINELLI: It's a cool freaking name.
"If there's a possibility to buy a new car, always do it."
IAN WHELAN: He might be right.
MIKE SPINELLI: Strong point.
I just wanted to end with that.
IAN WHELAN: If you just want to drive your car and not
worry about other things, then there's always something to be
said about buying something that's just all sorted out.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right.
That's one way to go.
OK.
Also Twitter.
Loping Camshaft.
"M3 no question.
You can get a nice one for $15k and have plenty left over
for aftermarket and maintenance.
Heavier, but more power." That's solid, solid reasoning.
IAN WHELAN: Good point.
MIKE SPINELLI: Next.
Kieron McNab.
Kyeer-un McNab, I'm just guessing.
IAN WHELAN: That's another cool name.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
IAN WHELAN: We have cool viewers from around the world.
MIKE SPINELLI: We have cool-named viewers.
"Not sure if serious?" So this is the are-you-guys-fre
aking-kidding-me school.
"Not sure if serious?
Not that it needs saying, but the M3 all day, every day."
I mean, it's been fairly weighted on
the side of the M3.
Next.
Let's see--
IAN WHELAN: I think, just about his comment, if you're a
European car fan, there's one choice.
And if you are a little bit more open-minded, maybe you
could see both.
And if you like Japanese, then Subaru BRZ.
I mean, these two cars are in totally different camps as far
as ethoses.
So it just depends on taste, too.
MIKE SPINELLI: It does, but also, it depends, as we were
talking about before, the European
versus the US version.
So if you guys are Europeans chiming in on this, you're
talking about a 300-horsepower M3.
Or a 320, even.
IAN WHELAN: So that tips the scales a little.
MIKE SPINELLI: Tips the scales a little bit more.
So that's just something to keep in mind.
OK.
Krishan Ladwa.
"I'd have a BRZ in this matchup.
The E36 M3 was just a faster 328i."
IAN WHELAN: He's kind of echoing what you said earlier.
MIKE SPINELLI: That's the thing.
That's the problem.
If you're in the US and you're comparing M3 generations, as
much as I like the E36, it's kind of the least special of
all the M3 generations.
But that's not to say it's a bad car.
It's actually a very good car.
And especially a second generation.
Second build.
I don't mean second generation.
We'll get to the specs in just a second.
IAN WHELAN: I love BMWs, but that's actually something that
has kept me from seriously considering the E36.
And even though I said it might be better for some
people, that it wasn't as exotic, it just doesn't get me
that excited.
So some other people might feel the same way.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
And coming off the E30, which really was an
exotic, compared to--
it had much less to do with the 3 series, the 325, than
the E36-M3 had with the 328.
All right.
Anyway.
So, last up, Clinton Naik. "BRZ everyday!
E36 can be very tired and hard to tell if it's been abused or
not." Very strong point.
"If you're going in that direction rather
E46 M3." All right.
So, not mentioning the car that dare
not mention its name.
No E46 talk.
IAN WHELAN: We'll get there.
MIKE SPINELLI: We'll definitely get to that.
But that's a really strong point.
That a lot of the E36s that you see on eBay, or around on
cars.com or whatever are just beat up.
Because the good thing about them is that they were
bulletproof.
The bad thing about them is that they were so bulletproof
that people beat the crap out of them and ran them to
200,000 miles.
And there are a lot of tired specimens out there.
IAN WHELAN: Yeah.
But you could probably bring one back from the brink if you
know what you're doing.
There's a million parts out there for those cars.
Aftermarket suspension pieces and things like that to make
it even better than it was.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
So if you're so inclined, and you like the E36's
comportment--
IAN WHELAN: As long as it's not rusty.
MIKE SPINELLI: As long as it's not rusty.
All right.
So let's take a look at the specs.
Obviously, Subaru BRZ, same as usual.
2 liter flat four, 2,762 pounds.
IAN WHELAN: 200 horsepower.
MIKE SPINELLI: 200 horsepower.
Now, if you happen to be American, you look at this,
and you go, eh, that's pretty nice.
Pretty good deal for the time.
IAN WHELAN: Yeah.
The car had pretty good performance numbers.
Even for today, that's pretty good performance numbers.
But then you look at the European cars.
And you kind of wish you had that experience.
MIKE SPINELLI: You have a sad.
I mean, forget it.
It's just much more exotic.
And probably not quite 100 more
horsepower, but a lot more.
IAN WHELAN: And we haven't driven that car.
So I know some you guys probably have out there in
comment land.
So come and tell us about it.
MIKE SPINELLI: And you'll notice that all the photos we
have are from the European car.
That's really because there's rights issues.
We can only use photos that came from-- mostly from BMW,
or are Wikipedia rights-free.
But anyway, don't worry about that.
So first build, maybe '95.
It had the 3 liter.
3.2 liter came in '96 to '99.
So most of those cars have that.
236 pounds-feet for those cars.
So $10 grand for a good entry-level, a well-maintained
good example.
You go to $15,000, you get a BMW club member who
meticulously took care of it.
IAN WHELAN: That's going to be a really nice car.
And you might get one of the more desirable colors, like
the estoril blue, which is a cool one.
MIKE SPINELLI: Two of them for the price of the BRZ.
So to me--
I'm not going to say.
Because it's for you guys to say.
IAN WHELAN: Yeah.
Tell us what you think.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
So let us know what you think.
Obviously, we've got the thread going on Facebook.
That's facebook.com/drivetv, as usual.
Twitter, @drive on Twitter.
And slashdrive.tv.
Right?
www.slashdrive.tv on the now-Yahoo-owned Tumblr.
Tumblr.
IAN WHELAN: And we also have discussion on
that website, as well.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
Because people are actually starting to comment on the
Tumblr site.
So that's pretty cool.
Cool is a--
fantastic!
That's After/Drive, BRZ or That.
Let us know what you think.
We'll see you guys next week.
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