EL CHAPO IS THE NOTORIOUS DRUG KINGPIN WHO ESCAPED PRISON IN
MEXICO FAIRLY RECENTLY, AND HE WAS EXTRADITED TO THE
UNITED STATES, WHERE HE IS CURRENTLY AWAITING A TRIAL.
HE IS IN NEW YORK, ACTUALLY.
AND SO, THERE IS AN INTERESTING ARGUMENT BEING MADE NOW BY
HIS APPOINTED LAWYERS, WHO ARGUE THAT, HEY YOU KNOW WHAT?
MAYBE HIS PRESENT CONDITIONS ARE A LITTLE BIT TOO HARSH, AND
AS A RESULT WE ARE HAVING A HARD TIME GIVING HIM A FAIR SHOT
IN OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.
LET ME GIVE YOU THE DETAILS.
GUZMAN IS RESTRICTED TO HIS NEW YORK CITY SELL FOR 23
HOURS A DAY, WITH THE LIGHTS ON AT ALL TIMES.
HE HAS ONE HOUR OF EXERCISE IN A SMALL INTERIOR CAGE WITH NO
ACCESS TO FRESH AIR OR SUNLIGHT.
HIS CAPTIVITY APPEARED TO BE UNNECESSARILY HARSH, AND IN
CONTRAVENTION OF MINIMUM UN STANDARDS FOR THE TREATMENT
OF PRISONERS.
THAT WAS A STATEMENT MADE BY AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL.
AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL CLAIMS THEY ARE GOING TO DO
FURTHER INVESTIGATIONS OF THIS, TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT
HIS PRESENT CONDITIONS ARE FAIR, AND WHETHER OR NOT IT GETS
IN THE WAY OF TRUE JUSTICE IN THIS CASE.
"WE WILL CONTINUE TO INVESTIGATE CASES OF ALLEGED IMPROPER
TREATMENT OF PRISONERS, REGARDLESS OF WHO THE PRISONER
IS OR WHAT THEY HAVE DONE."
I'M CURIOUS WHAT YOU ALL THINK OF THIS, BECAUSE WE MIGHT
BE ALL OVER THE BOARD ON OUR OPINIONS.
RAY, YOU START.
I'M SPLIT, BECAUSE ON THE ONE HAND I DEFINITELY BELIEVE
IN THE FAIR TREATMENT OF ALL PRISONERS, AND ON THE OTHER
HAND I KIND OF DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT EL CHAPO.
MAYBE HIS PRESENT CONDITIONS ARE HARSH, BUT MAYBE THEY ARE
HARSH COMPARED TO THE MICKEY MOUSE RESORTS THAT HE
ESCAPED FROM TWICE IN THE PAST.
THE SECOND PART OF THAT IS WHAT REALLY GIVES ME PAUSE HERE,
BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW BAD THE GUY IS, WE CAN'T TORTURE
HIM AND DO UNUSUAL THINGS, AND I THINK SOLITARY CONFINEMENT
IS IN ESSENCE TORTURE.
JERRY SANDUSKY IS A PIECE OF CRAP, AND LIKE, THE WORST
GUY ALIVE.
THERE ARE 1000
OF THOSE CASES, DOES NOT MEAN WE SHOULD PUT THEM IN A HOLE
AND LEAVE THEM IN SOLITARY CONFINEMENT FOR 23 HOURS A DAY.
BUT, EL CHAPO IS A GUY WHO HAS BROKEN OUT OF MANY PRISONS.
HE SAYS THEY WON'T LET HIM CALL ANYONE OUTSIDE, WELL YEAH, THE
LAST TIME HE CALLED SOMEBODY OUTSIDE, THERE WAS A MILE LONG
TUNNEL DUG UNDER THE PRESENT.
SO HE HAS THE WORST CASE TO BE MADE, AND EVEN STILL IT
SOUNDS A LITTLE BIT HARSH.
I DISAGREE.
THIS IS ONE OF THE RARE SITUATIONS WHERE I THINK
THESE RESTRICTIVE PRISON CONDITIONS MAKE SENSE.
HE'S NOT SOME RANDOM PERSON WAS INVOLVED IN THE DRUG TRADE.
HE WAS, OR IS, A HIGHLY CONNECTED PERSON, WHO HAS A
NETWORK OF INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE WILLING TO DO WHATEVER IT
IS TO HELP HIM GET OUT.
AND NOT NECESSARILY GET OUT OF OUR PRISONS, OR ESCAPE OUR
PRISONS, I WOULD ARGUE THAT IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE MORE
DIFFICULT HERE, BUT NONETHELESS HE IS A RISK, AND I THINK
THEY ARE TRYING TO DO WHATEVER IS POSSIBLE TO ENSURE THAT
HE IS NOT WHEELING AND DEALING WHILE HE'S IN PRISON,
BECAUSE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS AS WELL.
YOU HAVE PEOPLE INSIDE STILL MANIPULATIVE THEIR DRUG
RINGS, SO I THINK THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE CONCERNED ABOUT.
IT'S ALWAYS RISKY WHEN YOU HAVE DIFFERENT STANDARDS FOR
DIFFERENT PEOPLE, RIGHT, SO SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY, WELL EDWARD
SNOWDEN IS A TRAITOR.
I WAS GOING TO SAY HE'S A TRAISOR.
HE TREATERED.
HIM OR PRIVATE MANNING.
THEY TORTURED HIM, AND THEY HAD BULLSHIT REASONS WHY THEY
DID IT.
I'M PRETTY SURE THAT IF YOU ARE RUNNING A PRISON YOU SHOULD
BE ABLE TO KEEP THE MOST VISIBLE GUY IN YOUR PRESENCE OCCUR,
AND IF YOU CAN'T, LET'S HAVE SOMEBODY ELSE COME UP WITH
A PRISON.
I UNDERSTAND, I'M NOT BEING SO PATHETIC TO THIS GUY I'M SAYING
WHAT THEY CAN THEN DUE TO ñ I'M NOT BEING SYMPATHETIC TO THIS
GUY, I'M JUST SAYING WHAT THEY CAN THEN SAY THEY WANT TO
DO TO ANYBODY.
I DON'T KNOW IF THE STATE SHOULD BE ENFORCING TORTURE ON ANYBODY.
I THINK WE CAN LOCK UP ñ WE LOCK UP TERRORISTS IN OUR COUNTRY AND
WE DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT TO THEM, DO WE?
I'M SURE WE ARE GIVING THEM INSANELY STRICT AND HARSH
CONDITIONS AS WELL.
THERE ARE SOME COMPONENTS OF THIS THAT I AM WILLING TO
HAVE A CONVERSATION ON.
LIKE WHETHER OR NOT I WANT TO HAVE A CONVERSATION MATTERS.
THE FBI IS LIKE, HEY ANA I HEARD YOU WANTED TO HAVE A
CONVERSATION.
BUT IF I HAD TO ADJUDICATE THIS SITUATION I WOULD SAY, WE
DON'T NEED TO LEAVE THE LIGHTS ON FOR 23 HOURS A DAY.
BUT THE GUY SLEEP, IT'S REALLY HARD TO SLEEP WITH THE
LIGHTS ON, WHATEVER IT IS.
BUT I REALLY UNDERSTAND WHY THEY WANT TO ISOLATE HIM, ESPECIALLY
WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND HOW POWERFUL AND CONNECTED HE IS.
FUNNILY ENOUGH I THINK EVERYBODY IS RIGHT, EVEN THOUGH WE
ARE DISAGREEING.
LET ME EXPLAIN.
OF COURSE JIMMY, WE HAVE TO HAVE THE SAME STANDARD FOR EVERYBODY.
WE CAN'T SAY, WELL I REALLY DON'T LIKE THAT GUY.
THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF A SENTENCE, YOU SHOW THAT YOU
DON'T REALLY LIKE A GUY WHEN YOU GIVE HIM A LIFE SENTENCE, OR,
HEY THAT WASN'T SO BAD, YOU GET ONE YEAR.
THAT'S HOW WE ADJUDICATE.
ON THE OTHER HAND, THERE ARE SOME UNIQUE SITUATIONS THAT
CALL FOR SOME VERY SPECIFIC MEASURES.
SO, EL CHAPO IS A GUY WHO COULD CALL THE OUTSIDE WORD, AND COULD
HAVE PASSWORDS, AND THEY HAVE HAD IN THE PAST, AND SAY LIKE, I
HOPE JOE IS DOING OKAY, AND THAT MEANS LIGHT, MURDER JOS…
IN
SINALOA.
IF YOU GET A HACKER, AM I GOING TO GIVE HIM ACCESS TO THE
COMPUTER AT THE PRISON LIBRARY?
PROBABLY NOT.
SO, YOU CAN MAKE JUDGMENT CALLS THERE, CASE-BY-CASE.
A REALLY DANGEROUS HACKER, PRESUMABLY.
BUT, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU KEEP HIM IN A HOLE FOR 23
HOURS, AND YOU DON'T LET HIM SEE SUNLIGHT.
THERE HAS TO BE SOME BARE MINIMUM GUIDELINES TO HOW WE
TREAT HUMAN BEINGS, EVEN IF THEY ARE EL CHAPO.
SO, LOOK, WE ARE ON THE SUPER RIGHT-WING DRACONIAN EDGE
OF THAT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE REST OF THE WORLD.
IN NORWAY, IT'S UNBELIEVABLE WHAT THE PRISONERS GET DOT IN
BREVIC, THE GUY WHO MURDERED ALL THOSE PEOPLE, INCLUDING
CHILDREN, IS COMPLAINING THAT HE STILL ONLY HAS PLAYSTATION
THREE, THAT THEY HAVEN'T UPGRADED IT TO PLAYSTATION
FOUR YET.
THAT'S THE WORST MASS MURDERER THEY EVER HAD.
WE GO WAY OVER THE TOP WITH SOLITARY CONFINEMENT AT THE
TOP OF A HAT, WHEN IT IS FOR SURE TORTURE.
THIS IS HIS LAWYER, SO I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S TRUE, BUT THEY ARE
SAYING THAT EL CHAPO IS ALREADY IMAGINING PEOPLE IN HIS
ROOM AND HAVING VISIONS THAT DON'T EXIST.
BUT THAT IS BELIEVABLE, BECAUSE IT BREAKS US PSYCHOLOGICALLY.
8TH AMENDMENT, WE ARE SUPPOSED TO DO THAT, AND AS HUMAN BEINGS
WE SHOULD NOT DO THAT TO OTHER HUMAN BEINGS, BECAUSE IT'S NOT
ENOUGH TO SAY THAT THEY ARE THE BAD GUYS, WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE
THE GOOD GUYS.