a Ukrainian forensic team found
fragments of missile amongst the
wreckage of flight PS 752 that's one
reason the Iranian government couldn't
continue to claim mechanical error
brought down the plane they bulldoze the
site but examination of the pieces and
interviews with eyewitnesses revealed
the terrible truth thousands gathered
around Azadi square in central Tehran
last night chanting shame on our stupid
leaders and guns tanks and mullahs get
lost fury about the accidental shooting
of the plane and the attempted cover-up
has morphed into wider protests against
the Islamic state
[Applause]
chaotic footage shot by protesters
appears to show the security forces
beating people here if you look
carefully you can see one with a gun
escaping the security forces a woman
shouts they fired teargas at the
protesters Azadi square death to the
dictator nearby bloodstains the pavement
a voice off-camera says we've seen seven
people shot so far it's all blood
another woman screams that she's been
shot in the leg and there's more blood
on the pavement a semi official news
agency released footage of the British
ambassador who was briefly arrested
after being accused of attending a
protest on Saturday he says he went to a
vigil for the dead and left when the
chanting began today the foreign
secretary summoned the Iranian
ambassador to the UK let me be very
clear about this he was not attending or
recording a political protest or
demonstration his arrest later that day
without grounds or explanation is a
flagrant
violation of international law none of
it deterred students at Sharif
University in Tehran this morning 16 of
the dead were graduates who had
emigrated you took our best and replaced
them with clerics they chanted a state
TV anchor gallery Jabari resigned saying
it was very hard for me to believe the
killing of my countrymen I apologized to
lying to you on TV for 13 years many
Iranians it seems are unconvinced by the
government line if I want to be honest
with you and give my opinion the problem
is lack of appropriate structures
whether an improvement of defense
systems when how we should tell the
truth to the people we have absolutely
no intention of concealing anything from
the people last night protesters tore
down pictures of general Soleimani
killed by the Americans in Baghdad any
nationalist boosts of the Iranian state
has been destroyed by the shooting down
of a civilian aircraft and the cover-up
that followed well our international
absentee Hillsman is in the Iraqi
capital Baghdad now Lindsay we've seen
present from tweeting in Farsi today
presumably hoping that the people and
also the government will see it is it
having any effect there well I think
what it shows I mean it's the first time
the president Trump has tweeted in any
language other than English
it shows the policy of maximum pressure
and certainly people in authority in
Iran would have seen it it was a rather
odd tweet it said that he couldn't care
less whether Iran negotiations or not
and told the government not to shoot
protesters it also means that the
government can say as it always does it
that these protesters are being
orchestrated by the Americans maybe
what's having more impact inside is the
number of Iranian celebrities who are
talking about what's going on
the only female medallist from the
Olympics she has defected there's been a
very significant actress
she has criticized the government quite
a few people are coming out and I think
that will encourage people to stay out
on the streets you know the Iranian
government's in a very difficult
position at the moment on Thursday the
people foreign ministers of what they're
calling the grieving Nations Ukraine
Canada Britain Afghanistan Sweden a
meeting in London and they're going to
be talking about compensation because
now the Iranian government has admitted
that it shot down this plane it is going
to have to pay compensation and people
one of the things that they're furious
about is how poor they are and maybe one
of the saddest things is all these
university students who've been forced
to leave Iran because there's no future
for them there that's why so many of
them were on the plane going to Canada
and that is one of the reasons one of
the things that's driving middle-class
people onto the streets total despair
that they have any future in Iran
Lindsey thanks very much
well joining me now from Tehran is
Mohammad Hashemi a former journalist at
the Tehran times thanks for coming on
the program Mohammed let me start off by
asking you what Lindsey answered as well
just now how significant is it that
you've got these you know Iranian stars
you know whether it's the Olympic gold
medallist or indeed you know famous
actors and news presenters saying enough
is enough we've had enough of the lies
well as you know this was a very tragic
incident and their mood now in Iran is
that of grief and sadness and there has
been this wave of let's say fury and
anger among many people about the way
things have unfolded over the past days
and when these things happens this
feeling of emotions and let's say these
feelings of Uri comes out I would say
they would see such actions on the part
of a lot of artists on the part of
sports sports women you mentioned the
case of Kimya al-azhar there and so on
and so forth so the mood is now acquired
emotional and at the same time
today over since Saturday a lot of
newspapers have dedicated their front
pages to this story of his tragic the
Ukrainian plane crash but how many
squirrels okay but let me ask you this
how different is this then to previous
demonstrations and we saw you know
thousands of people on the streets of
Tehran a few months ago those
demonstrations were shut down the
internet was shut down at the time then
of course in 2009 hundreds of thousands
of people on the streets how significant
is this particular moment well I have
talked to some some of my colleagues in
other cities and I have also seen the
videos that your reporter also mentioned
when we are consult with my colleagues
there I mean there in terms of size and
diversity the number of protesters is
not that much in biggest scale it's much
smaller it's scattered in the others in
other cities we do not see that much
large-scale protests and also in Tehran
you mentioned thousands but it is very
scattered and I would say it is right
maybe but where will this lead I mean do
you think this will fizzle out or does
it have you know some kind of longevity
well one thing that is has been left on
noticed is that there is this upcoming
parliamentary elections and there are
some political forces who want to let's
say ride on the wave of this emotional
atmosphere another school politic in
order to score political points and at
the same time there is this in this
let's say let's say news coverage on the
part of the opposition news channels
from outside that they are hoping this
protests would continue what I would say
it would fizzle out in may be I assume
in in over a week maybe or less okay
Mohammad Hashmi thanks very much indeed
Kathy thanks Matt we're joining me now
from Washington is Gisele Donnelly who
served as director of the House
Services Committee and is now a resident
fellow of the neoconservative think-tank
American Enterprise Institute
Giselle Donnelly clearly Tehran is at
something of a crossroads how can the
u.s. coax the Iranians into doing what
Washington wants well I think the best
thing to do at this point is let the
Iranians try to sort it out for
themselves clearly the embarrassment and
shame you'd have to say over the
shoot-down of the Ukrainian airliner is
doing more to discredit the government
in the wake of the Soleimani killing and
to remind Iranians about how not only
repressive the regime is but really how
barely competent they are at things like
air-defense don't resist interpretation
to get involved because you know you've
seen him well he's a notable taught a
Farsi speaker I'm sure he's been saving
this untapped linguistic power for some
time but Trump is also a constant I mean
I don't think he can really influence
either to make it better or to make it
worse and in fact the policy of the
administration which clearly remains to
use it economic and sanctioned pressure
maximum pressure on the Iranian regime
but really to diminish the American
footprint in the region is probably at
least in the near term a path that's
likely to reap some rewards may make our
allies nervous as cats but it will tend
to undercut the Iranian regime's
narrative about the Great Satan coming
after them it's interesting that you
suggest that the policy is unchanged
because I just wonder what happens here
for example I was looking at one of
Donald Trump's weekend tweets where he
said the world is watching
more importantly the
USA is watching my administration will
continue to stand with you I mean what
does that mean does it for example mean
that if anti-government protesters are
killed by the regime that that the US
has to intervene in some way and step
things up again no it doesn't mean that
I mean what's noticeable about this is
that Trump has been quite silent say
when it comes to protests in Hong Kong
or elsewhere around the world so the
fact that he's actually even saying you
know going through the we stand with you
rhetorical posture is a step forward for
him and so he clearly feels I think
personally more animosity toward the
Iranian regime than then to others and
feels that this is a politically safe a
posture for him to take he's reassured
his base which very much wants to
withdraw from so-called endless wars in
the Middle East that he's not going to
become embroiled in a larger conflict
I'm not gonna clearly feel safe not
gonna be tempted to to pursue sort of
regime change as you know might have
been suggested by Mike Pompeo when he's
saying you know the Iranian people are
fed up with the regime he's gonna let
them sort it out themselves well so
there may be regime change by other
methods he's not going to stop
pressuring the regime economically or
geopolitically and he says now he's not
really interested in negotiating so he's
willing to let particularly under the
immediate circumstances the Iranian
regime sort of twist slowly slowly in
the in the wind but there is zero
prospect of a regime change war of the
sort that is more hyperbolic critics
would like to imagine she's old only
thank you very much for joining us
you