Support for Think Fast, Talk Smart comes from Stanford Continuing Studies.
Stanford Continuing Studies offers over 150 online classes on
a wide range of topics from art history to AI,
wellness to writing, as well as courses on business and communication.
Fall registration opens August 16th and is open to all adult learners everywhere.
Most classes start the week of September 20th.
Learn more at continuing studies.stanford.edu.
One of the things I love most about hosting this podcast is that I get to ask
important questions to really smart people.
And today I have a really important question and a really smart guest.
So here it goes, will I ever need to wear pants again to work?
Hello, I'm Matt Abrahams and
I teach Strategic Communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business.
Welcome to Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.
The pandemic accelerated the existing momentum behind remote work.
How will things change as we transition into a hybrid way of working,
some at home and some in the office.
Today I am super excited to speak with Pamela Hines.
Pam is the coordinate founders Chair and Professor of Management Science and
Engineering at Stanford and she co directs the centre on work,
technology in organization.
Pam's research looks at the effect of technology on teams, teamwork, and
innovation.
By exploring issues of culture, language, identity, and
conflict in promoting knowledge sharing and collaboration.
Welcome Pam, thanks for being here.
>> Thank you, it's great to be here.
>> Awesome, let's go ahead and get started.
You and others believe that the new normal of work will be hybrid.
Can you explain what this looks like from your perspective?
And what are some of the key tenets to successful hybrid work?
>> Okay, quite simply hybrid means that some people will be working at home or
in co working centers and others will be going into the office.
And what that looks like we really don't know yet because it may mean that you've
got some people that are always in the office some people always at home.
But it may also mean that you get people who were in the office part of the time
and at home part of the time at co working centers part of the time.
You know, it's really unclear how it's all going to look.
>> Yeah, in some of that, I think it's exciting.
We've learned during the pandemic that people can be quite productive
working at home.
But it also sounds like a whole layer of management and
logistics have to be put in place to make this work.
>> Yeah absolutely.
And you're right I mean most of the evidence is that most people were as or
more productive during this sheltering and place experiment that we've done globally.
And people don't necessarily want to go back to the office, and
I think that it's going to be a big recruiting issue for organizations if they
don't offer the kind of flexibility that employees have become accustomed to.
So I think, you asked, what some of the key tenants are,
I think flexibility is going to be key.
Employees are going to expect flexibility,
organizations are going to need to sustain a higher level of flexibility,
with regard to when and where people work.
That's not just where, it's also going to be when and
I think another tenant is going to be experimentation.
One of the things I think is really exciting about all this, and
perhaps a little bit frightening, is nobody actually knows how to do it.
It is not something that we've ever done before.
And I've studied a lot of globally distributed work and virtual teams and so
forth.
But hybrid work is not that and it's not telecommuting, which we know a bit about.
But it's something that is a mix of these multiple different modes of working.
And I think organizations are going to need to do quite a bit of
experimentation in order to figure out what works for their organization.
For their employees, for their customers, for particular jobs,
for particular, classes of workers and so forth.
>> Yeah, so certainly a lot of flexibility and very specific nuanced
approaches that are going to be required to make hybrid work, work.
I'm curious, what advantages do you expect and
what pitfalls do you foresee with this hybrid way of working?
>> Yeah, I think one of the advantages is just the flexibility.
I think that employees have become accustomed
to having more flexible lives over the last year plus.
Although of course they couldn't go many places so
they didn't have that flexibility.
But they did have the flexibility to have dinner with their or
lunch with their families to go walk the dog in the middle of the day,
to extend or shorten their work day as needed.
So a lot of flexibility in terms of how they were actually working.
And that I think, as I said earlier is going to matter for retention.
There's a lot of evidence right now that employees are considering
leaving organizations if they aren't going to have the kind of flexibility
that they have come to enjoy over the time of the pandemic.
There's also of course, a number of pitfalls.
One of the things that I worry the most about is that people
who go into the office are going to have more benefits
in a way than those who are not going into the office.
They're going to have access to more information,
they may have access to more mentoring.
More access to the opportunity to connect with a broader set of individuals,
to develop a stronger identification with the organization and so forth.
And those are the kinds of things that happen when you are in a physical
location that has all of those signals and symbols.
And when you're with other people and have the opportunity to run in to one another.
And those that are working from home, it's going to be much tougher to keep them
integrated and it's been fine during the pandemic because everybody's been remote.
And it's fine, they're these fully remote organizations and
it works fine for them too because again, nobody's in the office.
But once you have some in the office and some outside of the office,
I think we're going to start to see some issues with equity and
difficulties in people being able to stay connected and stay coordinated.
So that's one big issue.
And then another pitfall is just onboarding.
I mean, one of the biggest issues I'm hearing is that for
new employees, people who are new to the organization or
new to the profession, are having a much harder time.
Figuring out how things get done and learning because so
much of the learning that takes place is being done at
the side of another more experienced employee.
>> It strikes me that a lot of what you're talking about goes back to what
you said earlier around experimentation.
People are going to have to get very creative because the variables
are different when you're in the office when you're at home or
when you're doing a little bit of both.
>> Right.
>> And It might be that firms and the way they meet etc are going to have to really
try different things to see how that works.
And it's my hope that the leadership of these organizations is open to that
experimentation and that the employees are too because this is new for everyone.
Yeah, absolutely and
I think it's experimentation with new ways of evaluating performance.
It's experimentation with how we coordinate our work together.
It's experimentation with new kinds of technology.
And as I said,
it's going to depend a lot on the kinds of jobs that people are doing.
We may expect that people in different kinds of jobs will have different needs.
There might be differences in the stage of a project.
>> True, yeah.
>> There might be differences in the stage of life for people who have
small children at home, they may want to work in a particular way and
then five years from now, they may want to work differently.
So one of the things that I think is going to be
fascinating is watching how we're able to sustain
this level of flexibility and almost ambiguity.
In order to continually make the adjustments that are needed for
the given organization project individuals, jobs and so forth.
>> .Yeah and it strikes me you know, people have different tolerances for
ambiguity, for flexibility and creativity.
And so it'll be interesting to see if people self select for certain roles or
projects or even companies based on how the organization's approach all of this.
I'm not sure if you remember this, but I first met you six or
seven years ago when you were so kind to spend some time with me as I was
initiating my GSB class on effective virtual communication.
Who knew that that topic would become so important in just a few years?
At the time, I was fixated on virtual tools and how to maximize their use.
But you rightly reminded me that leadership and
cultural acceptance are critically important.
Can you share your current thoughts on the role of leadership and
corporate culture in remote and virtual work?
>> Yeah, absolutely.
I think that in many ways with hybrid work in particular
leadership is going to become much more complex.
Leaders need to be able to communicate a vision and
have that be understood across a wide variety of groups and locations.
And that can be tough, if you've got an all hands meeting and
everybody is in the same place and you communicate the vision.
And then you go back into the office and people are reinforcing that and you've got
all kinds of you Symbols and so forth in the office space it reinforces that.
It just is a little bit easier job than if you're trying to
communicate the vision when many people are remote.
And then trying to reinforce that vision again when you don't
have the opportunity to to talk with people face to face and
have physical symbols in the in the environment.
So I think that's going to be an opportunity for
leaders to figure out ways to do a better job of it.
Of conveying and reinforcing the culture of the organisation and
doing so in a way that is evenly distributed, if you will.
And I think it's going to require that leaders be even
better communicators than they had to be before.
Because communicating over some of these more lean,
if you will, media can make it harder to rely on.
You know we've always relied on on in the past,
our physical presence or charisma and so forth.
We need to develop other ways of capturing people's attention and
compelling and persuading people.
>> I think you're exactly right.
I think leaders are going to have to rethink the way they communicate in terms
of frequency and what they communicate and how they do it.
And I also think based on what you said that we have to re envision what culture
looks like.
And maybe there are ways to package up parts of the culture and the mission and
the vision that worked better for remote, that work better in person or
in a hybrid fashion.
Instead of thinking as of culture and mission and vision as one big monolith.
It might be that there ways to package it differently depending on where
the recipient is getting the information if they're at home or
if they're in the office.
So I think that creativity, and
flexibility you mentioned earlier really will come to play.
Before we end I like to ask all of my guests the same three questions,
I'm curious are you willing to answer these questions?
>> Yes.
>> All right, then let's start question number one if you were to capture
the best communication advice you ever received as a five to seven
word presentation slide title what would it be?
>> I think it would have to be It's not about you, it's about them.
>> Tell me a little bit more about that.
>> Yeah, I actually learned that when I started teaching
because I got very, very anxious when I was teaching.
And it was just really evaluation anxiety,
I was concerned about what they were thinking of.
And at some point I thought, well, what would happen if I actually
thought about them and thought about their learning experience and
the value that they're getting from this.
And it completely changed the way that I showed up, in front of an audience.
Because there's no reason to be anxious if I'm thinking about them and
the value that they are getting out of the the talk or the class.
So for me, that is a really powerful way
to do a much better job of communicating.
>> Right.
>> And enjoy it far more.
>> I love that.
>> Much more fulfilling that way.
>> Right, so being audience centric not only takes pressure off of you but
allows you to focus and be present.
And ultimately helps you to improve the experience for you and for
the audience which is fantastic.
So number two, who is a communicator that you admire and why?
>> Yeah, so the person that comes to mind is John Chambers,
the former CEO of Cisco Systems.
>> Yes.
>> And I think I've always just been so
impressed with the way that he communicates and
i think it's important because it just seems as though he is so authentic.
I don't get the sense that he is me getting on
the stage and becoming some other person,
it's like what you see is what you get.
He's also very clear in his communication.
He is very passionate about the things that he cares about.
And I get the sense that he's also really compassionate, in the way that
he communicates he seems to connect with people in a very human way.
>> Yes. And he brings a lot of energy and
authenticity to his communication as well.
I agree, a very good communicator.
And the final question, question number three.
What are the first three ingredients that go into a successful communication recipe?
>> Okay, I mean, for me, not surprisingly,
some of them are going to be things we already talked about.
>> Sure. >> So authenticity is really important to
me to just really come from a very grounded and
authentic, transparent open place.
And being engaging is really important, I'm still working on that one but
I think being engaging and having a story or
a vision to help people connect with what it is I'm communicating.
And I think it's really helpful to have explicit goals or
objectives what is it I'm trying to accomplish in this communication.
And that's particularly true, I guess it's true in any formal kind of communication
whether I'm teaching or leading a meeting or something along those lines.
I want to structure things in a way that have
a goal in mind and hopefully get us there.
>> Right. I like your three ingredients because they
cover three very important areas.
There's the approach you have, there's the way you deliver the message and
then there's also the content and how it's focused and goal driven.
So very, very useful and practical advice there.
Well Pam thank you so much for your time,
our topic today is incredibly timely many of us will be thinking about exploring and
figuring out how to work in a hybrid environment.
And thank you for sharing your suggestions and ideas about how to optimize our
work globally and in this new hybrid way, I really appreciate your time.
>> Thank you it's been fun.
[MUSIC]
>> Thank you for listening to Think Fast,Talk Smart,
the podcast, a production of Stanford Graduate School of Business.
To learn more, go to gsb.stanford.edu.
Please download other episodes wherever you find your podcasts.
[MUSIC]