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>> The scenes are all too
familiar to us now and January
6 thousands charged up and into
the U.S. Capitol intent to at
least disrupt the joint session
of Congress while they were
certifying the electoral
college votes that would
officially make Joe Biden the
president of the United States
included in that group charging
up those steps where members of
the oath keepers now the
federal government is charging
several of the group’s leaders
with planning attack. Joining
me now doctor, Sam Jackson, the
author of oath keepers
patriotism and the edge of
violence in a right anti
government group doctor Jackson
is assistant professor in the
College of emergency
preparedness homeland security
and cyber security at the
University of Albany, professor
Jackson, good morning. Good to
see you you told me you started
to write this book as a part of
her dissertation what was it
about the oath keepers at
attracted your attention. >> I started the project around
>> I started the project around
the time of the bunny ranch
standoff if you remember back
to 2014 and there’s this high profile conflict out in the
profile conflict out in the
American West between a rancher
who claimed that the federal
government was violating his
rights and agents of the
federal government and keepers
were among those who responded
I’ve in Monday’s call for
supporters to come out and help
him standoff, the federal They
came with their guns and with
their body armor and other
things to try to help. Monday
protect his rights and they’re
by whatever means they saw
necessary so couple questions and or what is the oath keepers
and or what is the oath keepers
foundational belief and how
have they focused their efforts
to recruit. >> Keepers is organized around
>> Keepers is organized around
a perception that the federal
government poses I’m very
present and real threat
everyday Americans. In many
ways the federal government is
in fact the main threat
Americans face and both keepers
wants Americans to prepare for
the possibility of conflict
with the government in the
future and in particular they want to recruit current and
want to recruit current and
former members of law
enforcement and the military.
All of whom have taken an oath
to protect and defend the
Constitution against all
enemies, foreign and domestic.
I want those members of law enforcement and the military to
enforcement and the military to
honor their oath as the oath
keepers interpret that oath.
And to pledge to proactively
refuse help the federal
government engage in any
tyrannical efforts and how do
they most effectively use the social media and other avenues
social media and other avenues
to. Advance their recruitment
efforts. They used a number of
different social media
platforms from the common ones
that many of us use facebook
twitter you too into some of
the more isolated or or obscure
social media platforms. Gas.
So asked Telegram these sorts
of over the past couple of
months, though they’ve seen
some of the major social media
platforms engage in moderation
activities against them.
When prominent members of their
organization have explicitly or
perhaps even implicitly called
for violence and criminal
behavior. So with that in mind
they finding other ways to
communicate as far as you can tell at this point. It’s an
tell at this point. It’s an
ongoing in the aftermath of the
interaction on January 6.
Their website host stops
providing services for them and
their website came down for a
while which has their website
also House a form which had
been a space for them to
communicate. In the days after their Web site was taken down
their Web site was taken down
they found a new host. And
their website is back out.
They are also as I active on
some of these other social
media platforms. Telegram.
But as we’ve seen some of those
platforms themselves face
challenges providing access in
the service being available to
users. So it’s kind of this
ongoing situation where well
here is directly or the
services they rely on tried to
be available and and sort of
struggle to do so.
>> So this was not necessarily
a particular focus of your book
but from what you study based
on the environment we’re in now are these groups likely to grow
are these groups likely to grow
and multiply or decrease in
number as a place for the
disaffected to go because it
sounds like they’re one of
their polls is if you’re
disaffected if you’re angry
about one thing or another this
is the place for you do you
have any any sense about
whether or not these groups are
going to continue to thrive at
all is it too early to tell.
>> That’s a difficult question
and in a lot of ways I think
it’s too early to tell we’re
seeing the aftermath of January
6th and even more importantly
in the aftermath of Joe Biden’s
inauguration 2 days ago.
A few days ago some members of
both keepers and other similar
groups are having to. Rethink
their understanding of the
world in American politics.
Many of them were in here into
the queue and conspiracy theory
and believe that Joe Biden
would not be inaugurated as the
next president. Now he is
they’re having to rethink their
their understanding of the
world I think that process of
re making sense of of things is
really going to the extent to
which keepers can grow can
continue to be relevant as an
organization but more broadly I
don’t think that’s a movement
that are the keepers as part of
his going anywhere I would
expect it to to stay around for
a while.
>> You’re a college of
emergency preparedness is focused on all of this I would
focused on all of this I would
guess what’s the general
consensus about. Our challenges
ahead about domestic terrorism.
The fbi’s indicated that it was
want to go going to be one of the biggest challenges we face.
the biggest challenges we face.
The folks to your colleagues
that tend to agree with that.
>> More broadly. Scholars who
have researched extremism and
terrorism have for a number of
years and trying to raise the
issue of domestic extremism and
terrorism in the U.S. for a
number of different reasons for
a number of a number of
different years. That is
largely fallen on deaf ears, I
suppose, and there are some
promising signs towards the end
of the obama administration in
particular which were quickly
reversed by the Trump
administration. And I think
many of us are hopeful down
that the government is going to
be more engaged and realistic
partner in addressing some of these issues. But we also.
these issues. But we also.
Many of us are urging the
government not to pass new laws
that caused by some of these
organizations are even some of
these actions as domestic
terrorism and many of us think
that the laws that we have on
the books are sufficient as
long as law enforcement and
prosecutors and Department of
Justice are willing to apply
those laws investigate things
that need to be investigated
and take threats seriously
doctor Sam Jackson, thank you