It feels really funny saying this as, like, a 'Guardian journalist'.
We're just aware of the stereotypes.
Half Muslim, half white, young and millennial,
gone off here to do a Jordan Peterson video
and I'm like, it's not what you think!
Women know what they have to do.
Men have to figure out what they have to do.
And if they have nothing worth living for, then they stay Peter Pan
and why the hell not?
Is modern masculinity in crisis?
As a journalist, I've covered many different stories
from terrorism to football, to knife crime
and in doing so, I often find myself in male-dominated spaces.
I've seen that there are many issues affecting men today,
that we're not properly focusing on and I want to do more to address these.
You've got a lot of men who have no idea who they are,
none whatsoever.
As soon as you mention men and masculinity online, the discussion becomes extremely partisan
and really polarised.
Post MeToo, it's even harder to talk about these things
but more necessary than ever.
I'm not saying we're going to get all of the answers to the big questions in this series,
I just want to open up the debate to some new voices.
We did a callout to our readers, asking them what they thought we should cover
and their answers were very telling.
'I think that normal emotions such as anger and frustration aren't considered normal by many people.'
'Do we all have a right to express solidarity with our gender?'
'MeToo has blurred the lines between genuine romantic approach vs harassment.
'Where is the line?'
'Where are the real options for mental health support?'
'Do not begin the conversation with a finger-wagging lecture …'
That doesn't sound very Guardian.
'… this will immediately alienate a huge chunk of the intended audience
'and you're immediately back to square one.'
I do think that's a fair point, I am laughing …
Just because he told me not to start with a finger-wagging lecture
and it sounded like a finger-wagging lecture.
So …
I'm starting this series at the sharp end of the debate,
looking at the people who are following one of the most popular thinkers and polemicists of our time:
Jordan Peterson.
In what sense is our society male-dominated?
Now, Peterson is an interesting character in his own right.
He's written a book, 12 Rules for Life, which has been a bestseller around the world
and his videos often go viral online,
especially when he's being interviewed by female journalists.
But that's not what I want to focus on today,
I want to look at why Jordan Peterson is so popular and what it is about his message
that has resonated with so many people
The west has lost faith in the idea of masculinity.
That's no different than the death of God.
It's the same thing.
Peterson's outspoken views on things like gender pronouns
and the role of men and women in society have sparked huge debate
but there's more to his message.
He does a lot of work around philosophy and religion and the idea of responsibility and purpose for people.
This is interesting because in a way, it's a form of self-help or life guidance.
And his audience is predominantly made up of men.
I can't imagine I was the only woman who was kind of wondering, what's going on?
I've come today because he's very, very provocative and then I know there's lots of things I won't agree.
He has a question and I like the way he thinks about the question.
I don't agree with most of his views but I like the fact that he's got all these opinions.
And he's got an opinion.
His messages are different, he has talked about the meaning of responsibility
which no one else is talking about.
I think women should have opportunities and I don't believe he thinks any differently.
Where would you say are your political leanings?
I'd very happily vote for Jeremy Corbyn.
I'm broadly a socialist.
Culturally, I've been bought as a lefty, marxist.
I'm not expecting to learn new stuff tonight,
I am expecting to say, well thank you, I appreciate what you've put …
And say, yes big man Jordan, yes! Well done.
OK.
So, I am in the auditorium now
with Bruno and Noah.
It's pretty full and I'm kind of surprised at just how many women there are.
So I'm looking to see if any of them will ask any questions.
Unfortunately, we can't film in here whilst he's speaking
and it's about to begin.
12 Rules for Life tour.
Peterson only touched on masculinity but spoke at length about gender and hierarchies.
In many ways, the most interesting moment was the cheer he got
when he pointed out how he was unwilling to bow to political correctness.
This is a really big deal for his audience.
I think a lot of people have really ... in society now we're almost too PC.
and the way that we think about things.
He's absolutely challenging what … particularly Guardian readers,
I should think, a lot of what they think and say.
He expresses his ideas without any worry about whether he's PC or not
and that's refreshing.
So political correctness is a really important point for our readers as well.
In the callout that we did, many of them expressed their concern
at not being able to say what they really think around issues like MeToo
because they feel like they're not going to be listened to.
There is a bit of a witch hunt happening.
As a woman and as a millennial, and a minority who's written about identity issues,
I think there would be a preconception that I firmly sit in a camp of political correctness
but that's not strictly true.
I feel like we need to have uncomfortable conversations if things are going to move forwards
and the most important thing for me in a conversation is truth.
So truth always trumps political correctness with me
but you have to couple that with respect and listening to people
and these are all things which go completely out of the window when
we're having conversations on Twitter for example.
Now, there are other caveats.
For example, you can't incite racial hatred or violence
but Jordan Peterson doesn't do that in what he says.
He is provocative but he creates a space where
there's dialogue, debate, discussion and that's really why he's popular with his audience.
And do you think we have a crisis with masculinity?
Yeah, I think there is.
I think that there has been a feminisation of masculinity for a long time now.
at least as long as eight years.
What do you mean by feminisation of masculinity?
I think what's been seen as traditional masculine traits, so the show of strength, has been discouraged,
So I think there's been an outpouring of the … to embrace everything so much
that the essential traits of masculinity just become forgotten.
I think also the crisis of masculinity isn't just down to …
Well, the feminist movement, which I think Peterson would say it is largely.
It's also down to the abundance of lad culture which has popped up.
to the abandonment of responsibility to that essence
when masculinity is defined mainly by how much you can drink,
how many drugs you can take, how many women you've slept with …
And that has come about because of lad culture.
So I think it's a crisis just from that respect as well.
How man define themselves.
So this was a really interesting place for me personally to start the debate
because I've had some of my own preconceptions challenged
and really interesting conversations with people.
One person in particular stood out, Neil,
not just because of his face tattoos but because of what he was saying
about Jordan Peterson's message.
Neil owns a bunch of barber shops in the north of England,
and I decided to continue the discussion with him in one of his barber shops in Leeds.
Like, comment and subscribe to our channels
so you can catch up with the next episode
and let us know what you think we should be covering.
There's always a stigma that men can't be vulnerable and men can't have emotions
or men can't cry.
Throughout the series, we're going to hear from lots of different voices,
including some famous faces.
Men tend to make up their minds pretty quickly
and then act on it.
Women are much more subtle.
When I see my friends, especially when approaching a woman,
and they turn on this certain amount of bravado,
it's like, that isn't you.
When we are talking about role models for kids,
be careful that in 40 years time you're not telling them, 'No that's wrong now',
or 30 years time.
We're giving them role models now
what we think is a good role model and then suddenly, 'No, no, no,
'we don't believe that any more, we don't do that.'
I feel like masculinity is misinterpreted these days
and people just go for stereotypes as in strength and protection.
Being a man and being masculine is being able to be caring
and have self-awareness of the people around you and the world around you as well.
There comes a point and I think we've gone way past this point now
where your feelings and your emotions become counterproductive to you making progress.