>> Hey, welcome back everybody.
Jeff Frick here with theCUBE.
We're in downtown San Francisco at the Twitter headquarters
for Data Privacy Day.
An interesting collection of people coming together
here at Twitter to talk about privacy,
the implications of privacy...
And I can't help but think back to the
classic Scott McNeely quote right,
"Privacy is dead, get over it", and that was in 1999.
Oh how the world has changed, most significantly obviously
mobile phones with the release of the iPhone in 2007.
So we're excited to really kind of have the
spearhead of this event, Michael Kaiser.
He's the executive director of the
National Cyber Security Alliance in from Washington D.C..
Michael, great to see you.
>> Thanks for having us in.
>> For the folks that aren't here,
what is kind of the agenda today?
What's kind of the purpose, the mission?
Why are we having this day?
>> Well Data Privacy Day actually comes to us from Europe,
from the EU which created privacy
as a human right back in 1981.
We've been doing it here in the
United States since around 2008.
NCSA took over the effort in 2011.
The goal here really is just help educate people,
people and businesses as well,
about the importance of respecting privacy,
the importance of safeguarding information,
people's personal data.
And then really hopefully with an end goal
of building a lot more trust in the ecosystem
around the handling of personal data which is so vital
to the way the internet works right now.
>> Right, and it seems like obviously companies figured out
the value of this data long before individuals did
and there's a trade for service.
You use Google Maps, you use a lot of these services
but does the value exchange necessarily, is it equal?
Is it at the right level?
And that seems to be kind of the theme
of some of these privacy conversations.
You're giving up a lot more value than you're getting back
in exchange for some of these services.
>> Yeah, and we actually have a very simple way
that we talk about that.
We like to say that personal information is like money
and that you should value it and protect it.
And so, trying to encourage people and educate people
to understand that their personal information
does have value and there is an exchange that's going on.
They should make sure that those transactions are ones
that they're comfortable in terms of giving
their information and what they get back.
>> Right, which sounds great Michael but then you know
you get the EULA, you know you sign up for these things
and they don't really give you the option.
You can kind of read it but who reads it?
Who goes through?
You check the box and you move on.
And or you get this announcement, we changed our policy,
we changed our policy, we changed our policy.
So, I don't know if realistic is the right word
but how do people kind of navigate that?
Because, let's face it my friends told me about Uber,
I want to get an UBER.
I download UBER.
I'm stuck in a rainy corner in D.C.
and I hit go and here comes the car.
I don't really dig into the meat.
Is there an option?
I mean there's not really, I opt for privacy one, two, three
and I'm opting out of five, six, seven.
>> Yeah, I think we're seeing a little bit more
granular controls for people on some of these things now
but I think that's what we'd advocate for more.
When we talk to consumers they tell us mostly
that they want to have better clarity
about what's being collected about them,
better clarity about how that information's being used,
or if it's, how it's being shared.
Equally importantly, if there are controls where are they,
how easy are they to use, and making them more prominent
so people can engage in sort of making the services
tailored to their own sort of privacy profile.
I think we'd like to see more of that for sure,
more companies being a little more forthcoming.
Yeah you have the big privacy policy
that's a long complicated legal document
but there may be other way to create interfaces
with your customers that make some of the key pieces
more apparent.
>> And do you see a trend where, because you mentioned
in some of the notes that we prepared
that privacy is good for business
and potentially is a competitive differentiator.
Are you starting to see where people are surfacing privacy
more brightly so that they can potentially gain
the customer, gain respect of the customer,
the business of the customer over potentially a rival
that's got that buried down?
Is that really a competitive lever that you see?
>> Well I think you see some extremes.
So you see some companies that say we don't collect
any information about you at all so that's part of,
out there, and I think they're marketing to people
who have extreme concerns about this.
But I also think we're seeing again some places
where there are more
higher profile ability
to control some of this data right.
Even in you know places like the mobile setting
where sometimes you'll just get a little warning saying
oh this is about to use your location, is that okay,
or your location is turned off you need to turn it back on
in order to use this particular app.
And I think those kinds of interfaces with the user
of the technology are really important going forward.
We don't want people overwhelmed like every time
you turn on your phone you're going to have to answer
17 things in order to get to do x, y, and z
but making people more aware of how the apps
are using the information they collect about you
I think is actually good for business.
I think actually sometimes consumers get confused
because they'll see a whole list of permissions
that need to be provided and they don't understand
how those permissions apply to what the app or service
is really going to do.
>> Right, right.
>> Yeah, that's an interesting one.
I was at a, we were at Grace Hopper in October
and one of the keynote speakers was talking about
how mobile data has really changed this thing right
because once you're on your mobile phone
it uses all the capabilities that are native in the phone
in terms of geolocation, accelerometer, etc.
All these things that a lot of people probably
didn't know were different on the mobile Facebook app
than were on the desktop Facebook app.
Let's face it, most this stuff is mobile these days,
certainly with the younger kids.
As you said, and that's an interesting tack,
why do you need access to my context?
Why do you need access to my pictures?
Why do you need access to my location?
And then the piece that I'm curious to get your opinion,
will some of the value come back to the consumer
in terms of I'm not just selling your stuff,
I'm not monetizing it via ads,
I'm going to give some of that back to you?
>> Yeah, I think there's a couple things there.
One quick point on the other issue there,
without naming names I was looking at an app
and it said it had to have access to my phone,
and I'm like why would this app need access to my phone?
And then I realized later well it needs access to my phone
because if the phone rings it needs to turn itself off
so I can answer the phone.
But that wasn't apparent right?
And so I think it can be confusing to people
like maybe it's innocuous in some ways.
Some ways it might not be but in that case
it was like okay yeah because if the phone rings
I'd rather answer my phone than be looking at the app.
>> Right, can I read it or can I just see it.
You know the degree of the access too is very confusing.
>> Yeah and I think in terms of the other issues
that you're raising here about how the value exchange
on data, I think the internet of things
is really going to play a big role in this
because it's really...
You know in the current world it's about you know data,
delivering ads, those kinds of things,
making the experience more customized.
But in IoT where you're talking about wearables
or fitness or those kinds of things,
or thermostats in your home, your data really drives that.
So in order for those devices to really work well
they have to have data about you.
And that's where I think customers
will really have to give great thought to.
You know is that a good value proposition, right?
I mean, do I want to share my data about when I come
and leave every day just so my thermostat
you know can turn on and off.
And I think those are you know can be conscience decisions
about when you're implementing that kind of technology.
>> Right, so there's another interesting tack
I'd love to get your opinion on.
You know we see Flo from the Progressive commercials
advertising to stick the USB in your cigarette lighter
and we'll give you cheaper rates because now we know
if you stop at stop signs or not.
What's funny to me is that phone already knows
whether you stop at stop signs or not
and it already knows that you take 18 trips
to 7-Eleven on a Saturday afternoon and you're sitting
on your couch the balance of the time.
As that information that's there somehow gets exposed
and potentially runs into say healthcare
mandated requirement from the company that you must wear
Fitbits so now we know you're spending too much time
at the 7-Eleven and on your couch
and how that impacts your health insurance and stuff.
And that's going to crash right into HIPAA.
It just seems like there's this huge kind of collision
coming from you know I can provide better service
to people at the good end of the scale,
and say aggregated risk models,
but then what happens to the poor people at the other end?
>> Well, I think that's why you have to have opt in, right?
I think you can't make these things mandatory necessarily.
And I think people have to be extremely aware
of when their data is being collected
and how it's being used.
And so, you know the example of like the car insurance,
I mean they can only, really should only be able
to access that data about where you're going
if you sign up to do that right?
And if they want to say to you, hey Michael
we might give you a better rate if we can track
your, you know driving habits for a couple of weeks
then that should be my choice right to give that data.
Maybe my rates might be impacted if I don't
but I can make that choice myself
and should be allowed to make that choice myself.
>> So it's funny, the opt in and opt out, so right now
from your point of view what do you see
in terms of the percentage of kind of opt in opt out
on these privacy issues?
Where is it and where should it be?
>> Well I would like to see some more granular controls
for the consumer in general right.
I would like to see...
And I said a little bit earlier a lot more transparency
and ease of access to what's being collected about you
and what's being used.
You know outside of the formal legal process,
obviously you know companies have to follow the law.
They have to comply.
They have to be, you know write these long EULAs
or privacy policies in order to really
reflect what they're doing.
But they should be talking to their customers
and understanding what's the most important thing
that you want to know about my service
before you sign up for it.
And help people understand that
and navigate their way through it.
And I think in a lot of cases consumers
will click yeah let's do it but they should do that
really knowingly.
If opting in is you're opting in it should be done
with true consent right.
>> Okay, so before I let you go
just share some best practices, tips and tricks,
you know kind of at least the top level
what people should be thinking about,
what they should be doing.
>> Yeah, so we really, you know in this kind of space
we look at a couple things.
One, personal informations like money value and protect it.
That really means being thoughtful about what information
you share, when you share it, who you share it with.
Own your online presence, this is really important.
Consumers have an active role
in how they interact with the internet.
Use the settings that are there right.
Use the safety and security or privacy
and security settings that are in the services
that you have.
And then, actually a lot of this is behavioral.
What you share is really important yourself
so share with care right.
I mean be thoughtful about the kinds of information
that you put out there about yourself.
Be thoughtful about the kind of information
that you put about your friends and family.
Realize that every single one of us in this digital world
is entrusted with personal information about people
much more than we used to be in the past.
We have that responsibility to safeguard
what other people give to us and that should be
the common goal around the internet.
>> I think we have to have you
at the bullying and harassment convention down the road.
Great insight Michael and really appreciate it.
Have a great day today.
I'm sure there's going to be a lot of terrific content
that comes out.
And for people to get more information
go to the National Cyber Security Alliance.
Thanks for stopping by.
>> Thank you for having us.
>> Absolutely.
He's Michael Kaiser. I'm Jeff Frick.
You're watching theCUBE, thanks for watching.