>>> WELCOME BACK.
PANELISTS WITH US, SENIOR
WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, LEGAL
JACKSON, STEPHEN HAYES,
CONTRIBUTING WRITER AND
COLUMNIST FOR THE NEW YORKER.
I'LL QUICKLY SHOW SOME BIDEN
POLL NUMBERS HERE, BUT I
ACTUALLY WANT TO FOCUS A LITTLE
BIT MORE ON THE WAR, BUT WE'RE
SEEING HERE, HALLIE, ONE POLL
AFTER THE INVASION, THIS APPEARS
TO BE THE FIRST OF WHAT COULD BE
THE RALLY AROUND THE FLAG, POST
UKRAINE, HIS APPROVAL RIGHT NOW
OF HANDLING UKRAINE ABOVE WATER.
WE MAY BE IN THE MIDDLE OF A
SHIFT IN POLITICS BASED ON
UKRAINE.
>> I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.
IT'S ONE DATA POINT.
WE NEED MORE BEFORE WE START TO
EXTRAPOLATE FROM IT.
THE WHITE HOUSE IS NOT HAPPY TO
SEE THESE NUMBERS, ALTHOUGH IT'S
NOT THEIR PRIMARY FOCUS.
WHAT STRUCK ME, WHAT HAPPENED IN
UKRAINE, IS PENETRATING TO
PEOPLE WHO MIGHT NOT CARE ABOUT
POLITICAL ISSUES.
THE IMAGES ARE VISCERAL, IT'S IN
THE FRONT OF EVERY SINGLE
NEWSPAPER, EVEN LOCAL PAPERS AND
NATIONAL NEWSCASTS EVERY SINGLE
MORNING AND EVERY SINGLE NIGHT.
THIS IS MORE POLITICAL THAN THE
THINGS FOESLKS TEND TO GET A
LITTLE LOST IN.
WE'LL SEE HOW THE OTHER ONES
COME OUT.
>> ROBIN, I WAS INTRIGUED BY THE
CONVERSATION I HAD WITH
STAVRIDIS ABOUT THE BALKANS.
I REMEMBER IN 1984 AND 1985, WE
WEREN'T GOING TO GO IN, AND THE
PICTURES CHANGED PUBLIC OPINION.
TO HALLIE'S POINT, THE WORLD MAY
PUSH US TO DO A NO FLY ZONE.
>> FOR THE MOMENT THAT'S NOT
GOING TO HAPPEN.
THERE ARE TOO MANY CALCULATIONS.
RUSSIA'S WAR HAS NEVER BEEN JUST
ABOUT UKRAINE.
IT WAS ALWAYS ABOUT THE
COMPETITION WITH THE WEST.
THIS IS THE
THE ONE BIG QUESTION, OF COURSE,
IS WHERE DOES PUTIN STOP, AND
DOES HE PUSH, WHETHER COVERTLY
OR OVERTLY, BEYOND UKRAINE?
THAT'S WHERE YOU MIGHT SEE THE
UNITED STATES TAKING A STRONGER
POSITION, SETTING UP DEFENSE
MECHANISMS, CHALLENGING ANY KIND
OF PUTIN AGGRESSION.
FOR NOW THEY'RE NOT GOING TO DO
THAT.
THE REAL QUESTION IS CAN YOU
CHANGE THE BALANCE OF POWER IN
THE AIR?
IF YOU CAN DO THAT, SUDDENLY YOU
CHANGE THE DYNAMICS ACROSS THE
BOARD, WHETHER IT'S GIVING
UKRAINIANS FIGHTERS SO IT CAN
TAKE ON THOSE CONVOYS WE SEE
OUTSIDE OF KYIV, OR WHETHER IT'S
PROVIDING STINGERS AND JAVELINS.
THAT'S REALLY THE CRITICAL NEXT
STEP.
>> I THINK THE QUESTION IS, IS
THE ADMINISTRATION DOING
EVERYTHING IT CAN DO.
THIS GOES BACK TO THE POLITICAL
QUESTION.
EVERYBODY WILL BE FAVORABLE TO
PRESIDENT BIDEN IF WE SEE THIS
PLAY OUT ON OUR SCREENS, ON OUR
PHONES, BUT THE BIDEN
ADMINISTRATION IS REALLY DOING
EVERYTHING IT CAN.
I THINK THERE IS A GROWING SENSE
THAT THEY'RE NOT.
IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT PRESIDENT
BIDEN SAID ON FEBRUARY 24th WHEN
HE ANNOUNCED THIS TO THE WORLD,
WE ARE GOING TO DO SOMETHING, WE
ARE GOING TO BE TOUGH.
HE SAID RUSSIA WILL BE AN
INTERNATIONAL PARIAH, A PARIAH
ON THE INTERNATIONAL STAGE.
WE'RE DEALING WITH RUSSIA ON IT
RAN DEAL, WE'RE DEALING WITH
RUSSIA ON CLIMATE.
THE UNITED STATES HAS GIVEN
GUIDANCE ON CONTINUING TO DEAL
WITH RUSSIA.
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED AFTER
2014.
WE SAID RUSSIA WILL BE ISOLATED.
RUSSIA WASN'T ISOLATED.
WE NEED TO DO MORE.
>> IT'S INTERESTING, IS THIS
PUTIN'S WAR OR RUSSIA'S WAR?
I THINK THERE ARE SOME THAT ARE
TRYING TO CREATE, HEY, LET'S NOT
PUNISH THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN DO THAT.
>> IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT.
WAR IS WAR.
WE NEED TO BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT
IT, AND WHENEVER WAR HAPPENS,
EVERYDAY PEOPLE WHO HAPPEN TO
LIVE THERE WILL BE IMPACTED.
IT'S IMPORTANT TO THINK ABOUT
PRESIDENT BIDEN IS ALSO DEALING
WITH THE COALITION FOLKS THAT
ARE IMPACTING THE KINDS OF
DECISIONS HE MAKES.
AND WE WERE LAUDING HIM,
CELEBRATING HIM FOR ACTUALLY
BUILDING THAT COALITION TO DO
WHAT WE'VE DONE SO FAR.
AND THERE ARE ALSO CONSTRAINTS.
IT'S ONE THING TO GO IT ALONE,
BUT IT'S ANOTHER THING TO
UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS A WAR
THAT IMPACTS HOW THE WEST
CONCEDES THEMSELVES.
>> I THINK IT WAS CLEVER AT THE
VERY BEGINNING FOR THE BIDEN
ADMINISTRATION TO GO PUBLIC AS
QUICKLY AS THEY DID WITH THE
INTELLIGENCE GATHERING.
IT WAS A SMART THING, I THINK IT
WAS DEFECTIVE.
NOT BECAUSE IT WAS A DETERRENT,
BUT IT MADE CLEAR THAT VLADIMIR
PUTIN WAS LYING ABOUT WHAT HE
WAS ABOUT TO DO, BUT IT CREATED
THIS GAP ON WHAT THE PRESIDENT
WAS SAYING, WHAT THE
ADMINISTRATION WAS SAYING, ABOUT
WHAT THIS WOULD MEAN, RESHAPING
HOW THE WORLD OPERATES, AND WE
DIDN'T INITIALLY SANCTION PUTIN.
WE RELIED ON S.W.I.F.T.
WE DIDN'T SEND THE ARMS BEFORE
THE WAR THAT WE'RE NOW RUSHING
INTO THE THEATER.
>> I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT -- I
WAS STILL STRUCK BY SECRETARY
BLINKEN.
HE CLEARLY WANTED TO COME OUT
AND MAKE SOME NEWS ON BANTTHE
BANNING OF RUSSIAN OIL IMPORTS.
THEY DIDN'T DO IT, BUT IT'S BEEN
A SHIFT FROM THE WHITE HOUSE.
>> IF CONGRESS IS GOING TO PASS
THIS, HE'S NOT GOING TO VETO IT.
THEY HAVE TO COME OUT IN FAVOR
OF IT.
>> BUT THE QUESTION IS, ARE WE
JUST GOING TO BAN WHAT THE
UNITED STATES TRADES, OR ARE WE
GOING TO SANCTION OTHERS WHO DO
OIL DEALS WITH THE RUSSIANS?
IF WE DON'T TAKE THE SECOND
LAYER, THE FIRST LAYER IS
MEANINGLESS AND SYMBOLIC.
REMEMBER, LAST YEAR PUTIN MADE
ALMOST $120 BILLION OFF ENERGY
WHEN THE PRICE OF OIL IS UNDER
$70.
NOW IT'S 115, IT COULD GO TO
150.
EVEN AS WE SANCTION HIM ON OIL,
THE REST OF THE WORLD IS STILL
BUYING.
>> BUT TO YOUR POINT EARLIER,
THE QUESTION ABOUT WHERE DOES HE
STOP, WE CAN AFFECT WHERE HE
STOPS.
IF WE DO THIS FIRST, WE'RE
BASICALLY NOT GOING TO BINGE
BANKS, WE'RE GOING TO STAY THESE
STEPS UNTIL THE END OF JUNE.
IF WE DO THIS NOW, WE CAN LEAD.
WE SHOULDN'T BE WAITING TO
FOLLOW.
>> SHOULD WE TAKE SOME SOLACE
THAT PUTIN IS CALLING THIS A
DECLARATION OF WAR?
MEANING, OH, THIS REALLY HIT
THEM THIS TIME.
IT'S CLEAR ALL THE OTHER
SANCTIONS WEREN'T EFFECTIVE.
THESE ARE EFFECTIVE.
>> AND HE'S CONCERNED ENOUGH TO
SAY THAT IF A NO FLY ZONE WERE
TO HAPPEN IT WOULD BE IN DIRECT
CONFRONTATION.
HE'S LISTENING TO WHAT'S
HAPPENING NATIONALLY, RIGHT?
YOU CAN RAISE THE QUESTION OF
PRESSURE ON HIM AT HOME INSIDE
RUSSIA GIVEN WHAT YOU STARTED
YOUR SHOW WITH TODAY, CHUCK, AND
THE CRACKDOWN ON REPORTING
INSIDE RUSSIA.
>> BUT THERE IS SOMETHING GOING
ON IN THE RUSSIAN ARMY, AND AT
SOME POINT WE HAVE TO FIGURE
OUT, ROBIN, CAN WE HARNESS THIS?
CAN WE HARNESS THIS CLEAR --
THERE'S SOMETHING.
>> CHUCK, HOW MANY MOVIES HAVE
YOU SEEN ABOUT THE PLOTS AGAINST
ADOLF HITLER IN WORLD WAR II AND
NONE OF THEM WORKED?
>> I WASN'T GOING THERE.
>> SO, SURE, THERE'S LIKELY TO
BE SOME DISCONTENT.
THESE ARE A LOT OF CONSCRIPTS,
THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE
DOING, THEY'RE LOST.
I DON'T THINK ANY TIME SOON
WE'RE LIKELY TO SEE ANY KIND OF
CHALLENGE, WHETHER IT'S BY THE
PEOPLE OR BY THE MILITARY THAT
CHANGES PUTIN.
>> EDDIE, I JOKED ABOUT BRINGING
UP THE STATE OF THE UNION, IT'S
LIKE NOBODY ELSE IS TALKING
ABOUT IT.
BUT IF THERE'S ONE THING THAT
SURPRISED ME ABOUT THE
PRESIDENT'S STATE OF THE UNION
IS THE LACK OF CONNECTING THE
FIGHT FOR DEMOCRACY AND THE
FREEDOM ABROAD, BUT WHAT ABOUT
TODAY'S FIGHT FOR DEMOCRACY AT
HOME?
MARCHING ACROSS THE BRIDGE A
SECOND TIME WITHOUT JOHN LEWIS
IS UPSETTING.
>> LET'S SECURE DEMOCRACY AT
HOME.
>> AND POLITICAL.
IT'S AN EASY POLITICAL MOVE.
>> WHAT WOULD IT MEAN TO SECURE
DEMOCRACY AT HOME?
WE HAVE TO ADDRESS WHAT'S
HAPPENING ACROSS THE COUNTRY IN
TERMS OF VOTING RIGHTS.
AND WE ALSO HAVE TO LOOK AT THE
FORCES WITHIN OUR COUNTRY THAT
ARE DRIVING THE CHALLENGE TO
VOTER RIGHTS.
I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT AND I THOUGHT IT WAS A MISTAKE.
THOUGHT IT WAS A MISTAKE.