>> Stephen: HEY, EVERYBODY! WELCOME BACK!
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, MY FIRST GUEST TONIGHT IS A PROFESSOR OF
LAW AND GENDER STUDIES AT BRANDEIS UNIVERSITY, AND A
LEADER IN THE FIGHT TO END GENDER-BASED VIOLENCE.
HER NEW BOOK IS "BELIEVING."
PLEASE WELCOME TO "THE LATE SHOW," ANITA HILL.
♪ ♪ ♪
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE )
BEING HERE.
>> OH, MY GOODNESS.
THANK YOU.
>> Stephen: I WANT-- I WANT TO GET TO YOUR BOOK RIGHT HERE,
"BELIEVING" IN JUST ONE MOMENT.
BUT FIRST, I JUST FOUND OUT YOU'RE ONE OF 13 CHILDREN.
>> YES, YOUNGEST.
>> Stephen: I'M THE YOUNGEST OF 11.
>> REALLY.
WE COULD TRADE STORIES.
>> Stephen: WE COULD.
IT TAKES THAT LONG TO GET IT RIGHT SOMETIMES, DOESN'T IT?
>> I THINK SO.
>> Stephen: I LIKE TO DO THIS WITH PEOPLE AT BIG FAMILIES.
ARE YOU GOING SAYING THE NAMES TOP TO BOTTOM QUICKLY.
QUICKLY.
>> I CAN.
>> Stephen: DO YOU WANT TO RACE.
I'LL LET YOU GET TWO NAMES OUT BEFORE I START.
I'LL SAY, ONE, TWO, THREE, GO, AND START TOP TO BOTTOM.
ONE, TWO, THREE, GO.
>> ARETHA, ALBERT -- JIMMY, EDDIE, MARY...
>> OH, MY GOODNESS.
>> Stephen: SORRY, I THOUGHT THIS WAS A CONTEST.
I APOLOGIZE.
YOU PRACTICED.
YOU HAVE PRACTICED.
>> Stephen: I PRACTICED MY ENTIRE LIFE.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
IT'S ALWAYS AN HONOR TO SPEAK TO SOMEONE WHO IS ICONIC IN MORE MO
AMERICAN HISTORY.
I CERTAINLY REMEMBER LISTENING WITH RAPT ATTENTION TO ALL THOSE
HEARINGS.
THIS IS-- THIS IS, YOU KNOW, 30 YEARS AGO, YOUR TESTIMONY
AGAINST CLARENCE THOMAS, TRANSFORMED THE NATIONAL
CONVERSATION ON SEXUAL HARASSMENT.
DID YOU KNOW IN THIS MOMENT, DID YOU REALIZE IN THIS MOMENT THAT
YOUR LIFE WAS ABOUT TO CHANGE FOREVER?
>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.
ABSOLUTELY NOT.
IN FACT, I THOUGHT I WOULD BE ABLE TO GO HOME AND KEEP
TEACHING LAW, COMMERCIAL LAW, AND CONTRACTS,S AND IT WOULD BE
FINE.
>> Stephen: AND YOU COULDN'T DO IT.
>> MY LIFE WAS TURNED UPSIDE DOWN.
IT WAS COMPLETELY TURNED UPSIDE DOWN.
IT WAS CHAOS AND TURMOIL AND THREATS, THREAT TO MY JOB AND,
YOU KNOW, JUST ABOUT EVERY ASPECT OF MY LIFE.
BUT, I HUNG IN THERE.
AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HELPED ME HANG IN THERE WAS WHAT
I KEPT HEARING FROM PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN SUFFERING FROM A FORM
OF GENDER VIOLENCE, ONE OR THE OTHER, WHETHER IT WAS INCEST OR
BULLYING OR SEXUAL HARASSMENT OR RAPE OR SEXUAL ASSAULT-- ALL OF
THE ABOVE.
>> Stephen: AND YOUR TESTIMONY GAVE THEM HOPE OR COURAGE?
WHAT WOULD THEY SAY TO YOU?
>> I THINK MANY OF THEM, IT GAVE PEOPLE COURAGE, AND HOPE.
YOU KNOW, I GUESS IT REALLY HADN'T DAWNED ON ME WHAT MY
TESTIMONY MEANT UNTIL A FEW YEARS AGO, MAYBE ABOUT 10 YEARS
AGO NOW, I WAS SPEAKING AT A HIGH SCHOOL.
IT WAS A VOC-TECH SCHOOL, AND WE WERE ALL IN THE CAFETERIA.
AND THIS YOUNG MAN, HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT, STEPPED UP TO THIS OPEN
MIC THAT THEY'D SET UP, AND HE SAID TO ME, "HOW DOES IT FEEL TO
KNOW THAT YOU'VE CHANGED THE WORLD?"
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE )
ANSWER.
BUT WHAT THAT DID FOR ME WAS TO MAKE ME ACT AS THOUGH I COULD
CHANGE THE WORLD.
I MEAN, THAT INSPIRED ME, BECAUSE SOMEONE THAT AGE TO
HAVE-- TO HAVE THAT PERSPECTIVE.
AND I REALIZED IN A REAL WAY WHO I WAS CHANGING THE WORLD FOR, A
GENERATION OF PEOPLE WHO OTHERWISE WILL INHERIT THE
PROBLEMS THAT ARE LEFT OVER FROM MY GENERATION.
>> Stephen: BIDEN WAS-- WAS HE CHAIRMAN AT THE TIME OF
JUDICIARY?
>> HE WAS CHAIRING THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE.
>> Stephen: AND HE HAS SINCE POLICIED TO YOU.
>> YES.
>> Stephen: FOR YOUR TREATMENT AND THE WAY HE SPOKE ABOUT YOU
DURING THOSE HEARINGS.
YOU HAVE-- FIND SOME FAULT WITH HOW MUCH HE HAS RESPONDED TO THE
NEEDS OF WOMEN, ESPECIALLY GENDER VIOLENCE.
WHAT ELSE WOULD YOU LIKE HIM TO DO?
>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I THINK HE NEEDS TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT
GENDER-BASED VIOLENCE IS PREVALENT.
IT IS PERSISTENT IN THIS COUNTRY.
IT'S BEEN AROUND FOR GENERATIONS AND GENERATIONS.
AND THE NEXT GENERATION IS GOING TO INHERIT IT BECAUSE IT IS, IN
FACT, GOING ON IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS RIGHT NOW, AND
UNIVERSITIES AND TO YOUNG PEOPLE WHEN THEY ENTER THE WORKFORCE
I WOULD LIKE FOR HIM TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE LEVEL OF THIS
PROBLEM AND THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE PROBLEM, NOT JUST TO THE
INDIVIDUAL VICTIMS AND SURVIVORS, BUT TO OUR COUNTRY AS
A WHOLE, AND HOW IT IS EATING AWAY, WITH OUR VALUES AND OUR
TRADITIONS OF EQUALITY IN THIS COUNTRY.
AND SO, AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT WOULD BE A START.
BUT THEN, OF COURSE,IMENT TO START BUILDING --
>> Stephen: TO GIVE HIM HIS DUE, HE DID CHAMPION THE
VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN'S ACT IN THE MID-90s.
>> YES, YES.
>> Stephen: IS THAT THE SORT OF THING YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT?
>> IN FACT, HE DID CALL TO APOLOGIZE TO ME PERSONALLY.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HE DIDN'T DO WAS TO TALK ABOUT HOW THAT
1991 HEARING HAD REALLY TORN PEOPLE APART THROUGHOUT THE
COUNTRY.
AND SO, WE TALKED ABOUT THAT.
BUT THEN HE SAID THAT HE HAD GONE ON, HE'D WORKED AND BEEN A
SPONSOR, COSPONSOR OF THE VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN'S ACT.
HE WAS HEAVILY INVOLVED IN THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION WITH THE
CAMPUS CRUSAYS AGAINST SEXUAL ASSAULT ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES.
VERY IMPORTANT WORK.
AND WHAT I SAID AT THAT TIME IS, I SAID, "ALL OF THOSE THINGS
TOGETHER, INCLUDING 1991, REALLY POSITIONS HIM AS A LEADER,
SOMEONE WHO COULD REALLY DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE PROBLEM, HAS
AN INVESTMENT IN IT, AND WOULD ALLOW HIM TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE
FOR 1991 AND FOR REVERSING SOME OF THE DAMAGE.
>> Stephen: WELL, THE NEW BOOK IS CALLED-- THE FULL TITLE
"BELIEVING: OUR 30-YEAR JOURNEY TO END GENDER VIOLENCE."
GENDER VIOLENCE, ON ITS SURFACE, THE PHRASE IN ITS SIMPLEST FORM
IS EASY TO UNDERSTAND.
BUT IN THE BROADER SENSE, WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?
>> WELL, IN THE BROADER SENSE I MEAN ALL OF THE THINGS THAT THE
PEOPLE WHO HAVE WRITTEN ME HAVE TALKED ABOUT AND WHO THE VICTIMS
AND SURVIVORS SEE THE CONNECTIONS BETWEEN SEXUAL
HARASSMENT FOR WHICH I WAS KNOWN, AND THE KIND OF BULLYING
THAT THEY HAVE EXPERIENCED, THE INTIMATE PARTNER VIOLENCE.
I'VE HEARD FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE SUFFERED THAT.
I'VE HEARD FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE SUFFERED FROM RAPE AND HAD THEIR
CLAIMS JUST DISMISSED, SEXUAL ASSAULT VICTIMS.
I'M TALKING ABOUT VIOLENCE THAT IS DIRECTED AT PEOPLE, LARGELY
BECAUSE OF THEIR GENDER, BUT IN FACT, WHEN PEOPLE THINK OF IT,
THEY THINK ONLY OF WOMEN.
BUT I'M ALSO TALKING ABOUT GENDER VIOLENCE AGAINST MEN.
ONE OF THE FIRST CALLS THAT I GOT THAT SORT OF CLUD ME IN TO
THE PROBLEM BEING BIGGER THAN SEXUAL HARASSMENT, AND CERTAINLY
LARGER THAN ME, WAS FROM A MAN WHO HAD BEEN AN INCEST SURVIVOR.
AND WHAT HE DID WAS TO COMPARE HIS EXPERIENCE, WHEN HE TOLD HIS
PARENTS THAT HE HAD BEEN ABUSED BY A RELATIVE, WITH THE
QUESTIONING AND THE ATTITUDES OF THE SENATE MEMBERS.
AND SO I REALLY BEGAN TO SEE THAT IN FACT, IT NOT ONLY IS IT
BIGGER THAN ME, BUT ALL OF THESE PROBLEMS ARE CONNECTED.
AND IF WE DON'T DEAL WITH ALL OF THEM, WE'RE NOT GOING TO MAKE
THE WORLD SAFE FOR ANY OF US.
>> Stephen: WELL, MISHILL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING
HERE.
>> THANK YOU.
>> Stephen: THE BOOK, "BELIEVING," IS AVAILABLE NOW.
ANITA HILL, EVERYBODY!
WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH THE STAR-- HOME ON ONE SECOND,
MA'AM-- STAR OF THE "THE MANY SAINTS OF NEWARK," ALESSANDRO
NIVOLA.