Jeff Deverett, Producer: Here’s the big question, how does a new filmmaker even get
the first appointment? How do you get the first time in there? Here is how I think you get in.
Film Courage: I believe you have three movies currently on Netflix?
Did you pitch all of those movies yourself to Netflix?
Jeff: Okay so the three movies first of all FULL OUT is the first movie (it’s a gymnastics movie).
The second one is called KISS AND CRY (it’s a skating movie). And the third one is called FALL
OUT 2: YOU GOT THIS (which is actually starting on January 1st). So it’s already sold and delivered
to Netflix but they’re actually starting airing it on January 1st. It’s another gymnastics movie
we’re supposed to start it during the Olympics last summer but of course there were no Olympics
so they held it until January. I say it’s on because it’s delivered
and that’s when it’s going to start worldwide. Luckily back then when I pitched the first one
they were open to hear pitches from independent producers. I got lucky because the timing.
They were a big company but they weren’t what they are today. So they were still taking pitches
from indie producers. So I went in there and I pitched them myself and I learned a lot. It’s a
whole different style. They get so many pitches. I didn’t know this back then,
you’ve got to keep those pitches really short. Get to the point because they get so many of them that
they get tired of hearing them. They just want to make a quick decision and hear what you have
to say. I pitched it too long. I had a 1/2 meeting and I probably took 20 minutes to pitch that other
than 10 minutes of pleasantries. Today I pitch in 2 minutes, 2 - 3 minutes max. That’s all it takes
because they generally know right? So I pitched it and they said okay sounds good we like it let’s
do it but we don’t want to take delivery from you because you’re an indie producer. We want
to take delivery from a distribution company that we’re already set up to do business with because
we don’t want to set you up as a new client in our database. It’s too much work for us. But I
am also a distributor. I have my own distribution company. I make delivery…I make perfect delivery
to the distributors or I am making delivery to the broadcasters around the world so delivery is
not an issue. They said yeah but we’re so busy, we have so much going on we would prefer that we put
you through a distributor and I said I don’t have a problem with that except for they’re going to
charge me a full fee for doing nothing. I pitched you, I did the sale. You want the movie and I’m
going to have to pay their full commission and they said “Jeff you seem like a sharp guy. Figure
it out. Go negotiate it, figure it out.” So they gave me a list of like 6 or 7 distributors that
they recommended who I could do business with. I met with 2 of them. I chose one of them and I
cut a good deal but not a fantastic deal because I had no leverage. They knew I was sent there so
I had to deliver through another distributor and I was kind of a little peeved by it. You know
it was Netflix, that’s what they wanted. What am I going to argue? So I had to do that deal
and it worked out well. The other people they did the deal then they actually happen to be
a good distributor. They did some other deals too and it worked out pretty well so I can’t
complain about it. So the second time around same thing - go to Netflix pitch them on the movie.
Love it, let’s do it. I said guys don’t make me go through a distributor.
They said Jeff you know the rules, got to go through a distributor. I said how many times do we
have to go down this anyways. Same thing happens. I go and I use a different distributor because now
it’s different times. I actually make a different type of deal and it works up. Third time around,
let’s do it please let me just deliver to you. Please let me deliver to you. If I fail listen
don’t even pay me the licensing fee. If I don’t deliver on time per exactly per your specs which
I’m doing anyways to these other distributors I said I’m already…they’re doing nothing. They’re
pushing a button to send the materials that I’ve given them. I have your delivery list and your
specs. I make the…I do all of the delivery items. Please just give me a chance. Third time they did
so now it’s direct and if there’s Netflix people watching, thank you very much. I really appreciate
that you let me have that chance. And I made delivery. I made delivery two months ahead of
their delivery schedule and everything’s fine and they’ve already confirmed delivery and
it’s perfect delivery and you know their delivery schedule is five pages long. I mean and by the way
I have to deliver those movies in 18 languages and six subtitles, there’s 25 versions of them
and delivery alone is a lot more money than a lot of indie filmmakers spend on making their movies
just making delivery. All the soundtracks, all the M&E tracks, everything. I mean it’s a very,
very extensive process making delivery but there’s companies you use who are certified…I forget what
you call them…not aggregators, whatever - they deliver, the specialize in delivering to Netflix
and you hire them and they do your dubs and your this and your that and you just have to manage it
all and then some stuff you do your own stuff, your own artwork and things like that. Making
delivery is a big part of the business but I really appreciate that Netflix gave me the chance
to do it and I did it properly and hopefully that and again that’s part of distribution.
Film Courage: How did you get the appointment to pitch? To even
know that your pitch was too long originally and shortened it down?
Jeff: Because at heart I’m a sales guy. I mean you know remember I went from law school into
the sales department of a distribution company. That’s what you do, you get appointments and
you meet with people and you pitch them and you have to be super, super tenacious
and very persistent and polite and the most important thing is you have to - here’s the
motto I tell everybody who works for me, you can quote me on this - “No means not today.”
Everybody starts with a no, everybody starts with a no. And if you take no
as the definitive answer you cannot survive in this business. I say no means not today. Meaning
I’m not going to give you the appointment today, I’m not going to give you the deal, I’m not going
to even talk to you, I’m not going to return your email. I don’t take that as personal rejection.
That’s part of the business. It’s a pain in the butt but it’s part of the business and I just keep
at it over and over and over. In a very nice way I just assume that it’s part of the business and
I have 22 years of experience getting no’s. There’s lots and lots of no’s. Lots of doors
shut on your face, lots of no return phone calls, thousands…tens of thousands of them
but you know ultimately if you believe in your product and you know that you
have something to offer to them sooner or later maybe they will give you a shot.
I used to say it takes a hundred calls to get an appointment. I don’t say that
anymore. Now I say it takes 250 calls to get an appointment. The number has gone up. So if
you know that going into it and you know for all the people who have worked with me in the office
they know that that’s true, they might say no Jeff you’re wrong it’s now 300.
But you know that. That’s part of the process and you just deal with it and you live with it and
is it a little depressing and aggravating, yeah of course it is
and are people totally rude and not returning any emails or calls, it’s part of the process.
Film Courage: And when you went in the third time to pitch,
what are you bringing with you? Just a log line? A synopsis?
Jeff: Okay, I’m an anomaly, independent producers who are watching this do not assume. This is the
Blair Witch Project. This is not what normally goes on. I had a track record from two other
films. If I didn’t have that I wasn’t even going to…every single time you do it it’s a new
adventure. So they know that I can make the movie on time and on budget and on a quality movie.
That helps open the door and get the appointment to start with. Secondly
everything got delivered on time and thirdly they did well with the movies. Had they not done well
I wasn’t going to get another appointment it’s business. It’s all statistics, they look at their
little iPad in front of you and they say okay your numbers are…they don’t tell you the numbers
(confidential). But if your numbers aren’t good - one you aren’t getting an appoint and
two you’re not getting a deal so how here’s the big question, so how does a new filmmaker
even get the first appointment? How do you get the first time in there?
Here is how I think you get it in…you’ve got to go in with somebody else.
You’ve got to go in with an established producer who has a track record who
can make believe in you or who does believe in you and can hold your hand through the process
and give you that creditability and experience because not only what the streamers want and the
broadcasters but your investors, the investors want. They want to know that you’re going to be
able to deliver what you say you’re going can deliver and if you haven’t done it before, it
doesn’t mean you can’t do it. You probably can do it. It just means that they don’t know that you’re
going to be and so they want to be on somebody who has done it before. So for say a streamer to
say okay Jeff will make sure your product is going to get delivered on time and on budget and quality
or an investor, I guess I have a track record that helps, it really helps to have a track record and
that’s sort of what all the agencies have. These are the people you want to do business with,
people that they’ve already done business with before because it’s more predicable.
So getting in the first one or two times is way more difficult because you don’t have a
track record so I think the best way to do that is to hook up with somebody who does.
Unless you can get super lucky and get your own appointment.
Film Courage: And where would one meet a person of this caliber?
Jeff: Yes, that’s the problem. I mean generally you’re going to go on the Internet, you’re going
to watch all of these webcasts and interviews and all of this kind of stuff and all of these
people who claim to be teachers and masterclasses and this and that and pros and it’s tricky, it’s
tricky. But you’ve kind of opened it up for me to do a pitch for myself here. I mean I do consulting
for those people to find other people. So I don’t necessarily do that for people. I have done it.
I’ve done a couple of projects where I’ve mentored them, once in awhile I’ll do that but usually what
I do as a consultant I hire myself as a consultant to hook those people up with other like people,
either certain genres because by the way when you’re dealing with Netflix now,
there are…there’s got to be thousands…there’s got to be I don’t know five to a thousand
buyers. There are so many departments now with so many little niches. So if you fit into this
category - if you’re horror, psychological thriller, blah, blah, blah, there’s like maybe
five different categories and you need to go into the right one so you’ve got to be hooked up with
somebody who kind of knows how to navigate that one. It’s a little tricky these days.
Film Courage: Okay, here’s another question…so I’m at an event
and maybe it’s film oriented or maybe it’s AFM, whatever. How am I approaching someone…I see
them from across the room. I realize this person could get me in that door [for a
meeting to pitch]. How do I approach them where I’m not disingenuous, where I am not
this sort of sleazy, LA opportunist…or maybe all the rules go out the window?
Jeff: Great, great question and it really boils down to
how do you do it in a bar? I mean you know like it just depends on who you are,
what mood you’re in, how many drinks you’ve had…it really does. It’s a chemistry thing.
Film Courage: That’s fair.
Jeff: It’s true, sometimes you just feel a little more daring. You don’t want to be that sleazy,
LA type of thing. Nobody wants that but you know sometimes people respect…like it could be I don’t
know how to do it. I was never great at a bar (ironically). I’m pretty good in a sales room
but I’m not that good in a bar. I just don’t feel comfortable in that environment. And it’s
the same, standing in the lobby at the AFM and the hotel there, it’s tricky, it’s really tricky. And
they’re usually talking to people and they always look so busy, you don’t want to interrupt so
that’s got nothing to do with filmmaking and everything to do with interpersonal
skills and confidence and humility and whatever it’s chemistry.
Film Courage: I think that’s a fair answer. You’re right and there are people who are
masters at it. I see them at Starbucks and all over where they have this It Factor and
they can start conversations and it’s not over-the-top “I need something from you.”
And there are other people and I can’t even say that they’re trying to be sleazy or disingenuous,
it’s just an approach. You’re right. I don’t feel comfortable in bars either so I get it.
Jeff: It’s a chemistry thing so I don’t know. That’s the word I use.
Film Courage: That’s a good point
and I don’t know I guess chemistry can be manipulated. I don’t know?
Jeff: Yes and it’s also funny all of these markets and festivals have these big parties.
The problem with the parties is they’re so loud. You can’t really talk to anybody,
you can’t really engage but maybe that’s better. I don’t know? It’s a social dynamic that’s
tricky. I generally approach it as real business like that’s who I am. Just real straight up
business guy which isn’t…sometimes that doesn’t work. A lot of people want it to be more social.
Film Courage: Yes, but then sometimes the ones who are really good at that there’s
like a flakiness. So there’s a really fine line to it.
Jeff: And it depends on the other person right? How they receive that.
Some people like to have that flaky thing, some people don’t but you don’t
know because you don’t know the person so you have no idea. It’s like blind dating.
Film Courage: Yes, that’s true. Good point. Have you only pitched
Netflix three times and you were successful at all pitches or there were more times?
Jeff: There were more times. I forgot to mention that. There were many more times when
they were not as receptive, which is fair game right? You can’t like anything.
Film Courage: But it taught you something?
I know it’s a cliche but you learned to shorten the pitch maybe?
Jeff: No. They didn’t like it. They didn’t like what I had to offer so
fair is fair. You can’t expect everybody to like everything. I mean I respectfully disagree.
I think the other stuff I pitched was in some ways even better but it didn’t happen that time.
But my motto is “No means not today,” so those are on the back burner.
There will be another cycle. I will pitch them again. I have to wait for
new people to come in or you know to change departments or whatever and then do it again.
Film Courage: Are you bringing in art, key art as well or no, that doesn’t factor in?
Jeff: Oh yeah, especially at a streaming company, yes. And at a distributor you have to because the
distributor wants to make the key art so they actually don’t want you…they want to
do it unless you’ve had it done professionally really good and you’re a good artist (whatever).
I always bring in key art. It gives a visual image and I bring in a trailer and key art and
a log line, that’s it, that’s all you need. It’s pretty short and sweet.
Film Courage: So then how does it go? “Okay great,” they tell you right there
“No we can’t do this.” Or they say “We’ll let you know.”
Jeff: Yes, they say “We’ll let you know.”
But after you leave those meetings you analyze that “We’ll let you know for a long time.”
Was it a good “We’ll let you know?” Was it a medium one? A bad one?
Film Courage: Was there an inflection at the end?
Jeff: Was there an inflection.
Film Courage: Did they raise an eyebrow?
Jeff: Was it on the left?
You drive yourself crazy. You just hope that on your follow-up you get a good result.
Film Courage: What’s your time frame for following up?
Jeff: I usually ask them when I should follow-up.
Actually I used to ask now I say “I’ll follow up with you in a week. Is that okay?”
Because you don’t want to appear that you’re bugging them or pestering them or whatever and so
you do and you’ve got to be good at follow up and then hopefully get a response. If you don’t you
politely follow up you know a couple days later. Everything has got to be polite and professional
even though they’re not necessarily…I’m not saying Netflix. Netflix is actually the most professional
I’ve ever done and I’m not saying that for the video, it’s true. Their follow-up is unbelievable,
they return calls. For me anyways. I’ve been lucky that my buyer has been super, super responsive,
polite and professional. Whereas some people you will never hear anything from them (distributors
primarily). You wonder if your email is even working. You didn’t get a bounce back but you
often wonder. So you follow up politely. You be as professional as possible and you know just
sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. Questions for the viewer: What was helpful
about this video? Anything not helpful?