[Music]
hi everyone it's marie forleo and you're
watching marietv a very special edition
because we decided to do this interview
right here with my dear friend Chris
Guillebeau because guess what he's got
an awesome new book out right now and
it's called the happiness of pursuit and
I am so excited
I adore Chris I adore his work many of
you know him already we did an interview
for his last book the hundred dollar
startup and he's just one of the
sweetest kindest smartest most brilliant
people and I wanted to have him on today
because I thought these concepts were
awesome so Chris thanks for coming back
on marietv
Marie hello and thank you it's a huge
honor I'm so happy to be back thank you
awesome
so tell us about the happiness of
pursuit finding the quest that will
bring purpose to your life so what
inspired you to write this new book okay
so since we last talked I had been
wrapping up a personal project it was a
quest to visit every country in the
world we might have even talked about it
a little bit last time I've been working
on it for about eight years or so then
so it was a 10-year quest in total I
just kind of came to the end of it last
year and it was something that was
initially just a personal project it was
something that I believed in for myself
and I love to travel and I loved the
value of exploration and discovery and
so as I pursued this quest I knew I
wanted to write something about it but
fortunately I didn't just write a book
about myself I didn't just write a
travel memoir because that would be kind
of boring so all along the way I was
meeting lots of interesting remarkable
people who were all pursuing a quest or
some kind of adventure of their own and
I wanted to know why did they do it and
what lessons do they learn along the way
and how are they changed through the
process what did they sacrifice or give
up in order to pursue it and why bother
you know what can the rest of us learn
about quests and then lastly it's not
really meant to be a sociological study
it's not just like a collection of like
this person did this and this person to
this blah blah the the book actually has
a clear message and the message is that
a quest can improve your life a quest
can actually bring purpose and meaning
to your life to
I love it so let me ask you this were
you as a young person or as a young boy
were you always into adventure and did
you have quests when you were little I
don't know if I had quests per se
I was always a list-maker this is
something that I noticed is actually
really common and all the people I talk
to I would I really like to write things
down and I like to write down my tasks
and write down my ideas and outlines
even in rough you know form I really
like to kind of you know break things
down into small little you know projects
or things so I think it was maybe a
value that I had and then I kind of grew
into it more and then I started
traveling and it wasn't like I went to
my first country and I was like oh I'm
gonna go to like you know the rest of
every single hundred 93 countries in the
world I kind of gained confidence as I
had some experience some that was
something else that I saw with a lot of
different people is they started with a
small vision and they kind of came to a
bigger one later on interesting so if I
heard you right and please correct me
from wrong when you started traveling to
different countries it wasn't
necessarily like well obviously because
you might have done some travel you did
some travel earlier on in your life but
then as you got that appetite wet for
travel you saw an expanded vision and
said hey why don't I set this adventure
goal for myself to see every country in
the world so it wasn't even like you
started off like this is my quest it's
working that evolved yes absolutely I
had no idea that this would become
something that would consume my life you
know for more than ten years I I just
started traveling I love traveling I
lived in West Africa for a while and
through that I kind of gained some
confidence and just it really
experienced the joy of being in
different places and then I think it was
after I had been to like 50 countries or
so I was like but still though it's not
that difficult you know after I've been
to like 50 ish I thought I'd let me set
a personal goal because I always like
goals of trying to go to 100 countries
right so that was the first one and then
I started getting close to that and I
thought how can I take it up a level
because I'm just going to half the
countries in the world I could kind of
cheat a little bit because you know I
could just pick the easy country so yeah
it was something that I grew into
totally and I really like it for me what
made a difference was combining travel
with goal setting combining travel with
something specific with structure with a
little bit of a container to it and that
that just kind of changed the whole
purpose and focus for me and you saw
that with the people in the book as well
that they perhaps started something
their appetite got wet and then all of a
sudden a new bigger world opened up to
them that became this quest this
adventure they wanted to go on yeah yes
very often and the specificity helped a
lot there's one story Robin Devine in
Omaha Nebraska
she's a knitter and she's like super
excited about knitting and she's an
artist and she makes stuff and she had
this project to make hats for people and
that's how it was at first it was like
I'm just gonna make hat so she made huts
for friends and her family just like a
lot of knitters too but then she had the
idea of creating some specific structure
to it and at first she thought I want to
knit a thousand hats like what would
that look like you know etc so she
started working toward that and figuring
out how much time and how much money and
are there any other costs you know all
that and then she decided to increase
the goal and go to 10,000 hats and so
now it's like her life quest which I
forget how many years it's going to take
you can actually go to her website and
request a hat there may be a waiting
period but eventually she's going to
make 10,000 hats so yeah a lot of people
they found that their vision and
expanded but then also as they work
toward something they made it more
specific so let's talk now about the
link between quests or adventures that
we can go on if we want to call it that
and happiness what did you discover not
only for yourself but what did you
discover from the stories of everyone
that you interviewed for a book so for
myself you know when I started traveling
and in pursuing the goal I think it kind
of came out of a sense of discontent or
dissatisfaction which doesn't mean that
I was miserable it's not like I was
terribly unhappy like I had a good life
you know I had I had become an
entrepreneurs working for myself but yet
I guess I felt like I wanted to
challenge myself I wanted more and a lot
of the people that we talked to very in
the book they had the same kind of
discontent it was it was a yearning for
something it was a yearning to connect
something broader in their life you know
they often were happy they had good
families they had good jobs or good
businesses or something but yet you know
they had this desire to go further I
mean so that's where I saw a really a
link
between the happiness and the pursuit of
a goal the pursuit of a goal you know
bigger than ourselves I mean something
that is really significant something
that is really challenging because
there's also a link between a quest and
a challenge I think I think you know if
you're if your quest is like to go down
the street and get coffee and come back
it's not really a quest
but when you combine it with something
that's challenging maybe hard but also
rewarding you know that's where I think
a lot of us can find happiness have you
seen that people are working on multiple
quests at once or do most people kind of
choose something that feels challenging
needy maybe a little bit scary totally
exciting or sure I think there's there's
more than one way you know to do it
I'm always the kind of person that I
like to work on a bunch of stuff at once
it's just my personality you know for
better or worse right yeah um but I also
think you know a true quest a true
adventure it does involve some kind of
sacrifice you know it does involve some
kind of trade-off I mean if sacrifice is
too heavy a word let's eggs right off
you know to go to every country in the
world like it was a pretty big thing
like there were a lot of things I had to
say no to in order to say yes to that
like what like what like what like like
building my career you know like you
know I was I was on the road and in
central Africa and Central Asia and
Bangladesh and all these places 100 days
a year often and I couldn't really work
on my business very much you know during
that time and that was okay I had to say
no to a lot lots of opportunities you
know that are coming through around but
I guess I really believed in this
project I really believed in doing it
and every time I would start to think oh
maybe I you know shouldn't get on that
plane and go to Chad or whatever like no
I have to do like this is the root of
everything this is the foundation that
everything else is built on so yes I
think you can do a lot of stuff but I
guess also if you really believe in
something like it's going to take
something from you as well yeah no I
love this discussion because especially
Chris I love that you shared the
self-doubt that can creep up I think for
anyone who's creative if you
you know call it a quest or if it's a
project you know to write a book or if
it's something to build a business or
create something that's never that's
never been created before and part of
that adventure is you bringing it into
the world I think that self-doubt is so
it's a topic that many of us we don't
like to talk about you know I love
hearing that you are like okay should I
get on this plane to Chad and I have all
these different opportunities coming in
I mean I'm working on another writing
project right now and I feel like daily
the self-doubt voices are like God or
you do know enough to write this doesn't
even care it's amazing did you notice
that the other folks that you
interviewed as well had those
wrestling's with self-doubt in in
pursuit of their adventure or their
quest absolutely like almost all of them
yeah almost all of them in different
ways and they spoke about it in
different ways you know people use
different language but everyone
experiences that I think I think the
bigger the challenge may be the more the
self-doubt or the more the fear but also
maybe more the stirring that you have to
do it you know it's this idea that's not
going to leave you alone and I think a
lot of them maybe were focused on the
long-term and they're focused on the
outcome and they thought about that book
that they wanted to write or whatever it
was and they imagined having that out
and I thought about the people who would
be helped by it and that's kind of what
got them through you know that's the
focus on the other side I mean I think a
lot of them also
the other interesting thing I noticed
they had in common was a lot of them had
what I called
an emotional awareness of mortality and
this also sounds kind of heavy but it
doesn't hate you I love it we talk about
death on marietv all the time because I
think I just think it's one of the most
sobering and it wakes you up it wakes
you up to value each moment so not to
interrupt but let's talk about that
let's photo that reality of mortality
right so the emotional awareness of it
as opposed to the intellectual awareness
I think everyone has an intellectual
awareness of mortality which I defined
in a book as just the fact that
everybody dies right it's just a fact
right but the emotional awareness of
mortality is what I noticed a lot of
these people talked about is I
interviewed them and they brought it up
like I don't even ask like hey what do
you think about death you know like it's
just yeah it's not really the best
interview question um but a lot of them
talked about different experiences
they'd had either with like an axe
that they'd have our close call that
they had or someone that they loved and
lost something that just brought them
closer to the awareness that not only
everyone else in the world is going to
die one day but I too you know will die
and just the the focus on the fact that
life is short we should live with
urgency you know that also kind of helps
to overcome some of the self-doubt I
think I think you think okay what really
matters you know yeah I've got my own my
own stuff I've got my own anxiety or
whatever that that thing is that most of
us struggle with but I also have this
dream and I also want more I want to
improve my life you know I'm taking time
to watch marietv because not just I want
to be entertained but I want to improve
my life I want to take steps toward that
so that's something else that that
people had in common that I think is
actually helpful yeah and that's one of
the values of this it's one of the
values of your book and I am so happy
that you wrote it and that we're sharing
it today is so many of us can find
ourselves different parts of the journey
struggling with you know is there more
is there more meaning I think one of the
most touching stories for me was about
the young man who lost his wife can you
tell us a little bit about that story
mmm
yes this is a beautiful story it is a
sad story as you alluded to but it's
also a beautiful story this is a story
of a young couple who met in South Korea
and he was American she was Canadian and
they were both teaching English there
they met when they were really young say
young 20s or so and they fell in love
and they were beginning to plan a life
together but unfortunately she received
a diagnosis of breast cancer so they
returned to North America and she got
treatment but unfortunately the
treatment was not successful and so she
did it end up going into Hospice and
before she died she had been writing a
blog she had her own bucket list of all
these things that she wanted to do in
her life and she begun you know work
toward them and after she died of course
it's very sad Adam the young man decided
to take on her quest for himself
and he decided to take over writing her
blog and pursuing all of those items you
know on the list so she wanted to learn
how to knit and sew now you know he
learned how to knit she wanted to run a
marathon so he began training for that
she wanted to work volunteer in India so
he made a commitment to go and do that
and it is a beautiful story of how he
adopted the legacy that she was
preparing so it's sad but he also talked
about how how he found purpose and that
he found purpose and that through his
own grieve yeah but then you know also
through his own foundation for the
future and and he said that she had
always been inspired by Megan and it had
been inspired by this list that she had
so he hoped to to follow it up it was so
touching and it like brings tears to my
eyes right now because this life is so
short and it's so fleeting and it's just
incredible um anyway really really great
great story so the other thing I know
travel obviously huge passion of yours
it's a passion of mine many many folks
in our audience but if someone per set
you know let's say they don't have the
means to travel or perhaps some kind of
huge big adventure is just not in their
cards right now let's talk about some of
the smaller quests and the smaller
adventures that people tell were equally
as fulfilling oh yeah
and exciting and and also really
creative oh absolutely I don't even
necessarily think that they were smaller
you know in some way you know I feel
like they're just different and and you
know each of us has our own abilities
own desires and capacities blah blah so
one of the stories I really really liked
is from Sasha Martin who's in Oklahoma
City and Sasha had grown up overseas I
think her dad was working some European
company or something so she had this
international perspective but then she
met a guy and kind of settled down and
she had a daughter and wasn't able to
travel much but she also had a culinary
arts degree and she wanted to raise her
family with an international perspective
you know if she thought Oklahoma is
oh but like I want you know to have a
broader worldview than just that so
because she wasn't able to visit every
country in the world she decided to make
a meal from every country in the world
and this wasn't just like a half-assed
kind of thing this was like a once a
week she would devote like lots of time
to researching all these different
recipes and she would play the music
from the country and she would like get
the flag and it turned it into a
community thing and people are starting
to visit right and so her daughter like
her for her daughter's first solid food
is Afghan chicken and her daughter is
like 3 years old now and is equally
proficient with chopsticks or silverware
or her fingers you know depending on the
food and she's has talked about how it's
made such a huge difference in her
family and also connecting it to people
all over the world because she's been
posting her recipes online and sharing
this whole attorney with other people so
it's something that started also as a
personal project just like mine but it
became you know much more impactful over
time that was one of my other favorite
stories from the book because I really
saw how fun that could be and how this
idea of having a quest that we can do it
right from our own house just using our
imagination and our hearts and our
desire to connect with something bigger
than ourselves and to stretch ourselves
which i think is is really it's
something that I love doing in my own
life but I've never quite seen it put in
the framework in the context of what you
wrote which is again what I'm so excited
to have you on so let's talk about
something else that I thought was really
interesting we have a lot of multi
passionate entrepreneurs and a lot of
creative folks in our audience who again
we talked about do lots of different
things and one of the things that struck
me about this idea of a quest or an
adventure and having a set container a
beginning middle and an end
was the power of finishing something so
many of us I know certainly myself you
get these great ideas and you kind of
like okay I'm gonna do yoga all the time
or I'm gonna meditate everyday or I'm
going to completely change my diet and
people take on so much or they start a
new project they start a new business
they start a new product or a program
they want to put out into the world and
it's kind of half finished how strong is
the connection between having you know a
quest and the power of finishing what
cannot teach us hmm
well one of the things I had to decide
in the very beginning was what is a
quest right because for the previous
book you know I'm writing about small
businesses who got started without
spending a lot of money that's really
straightforward you know and I found a
lot of people who fit that category and
I thought about quests I kind of had to
go back like okay let's let's go way
back right like what is a quest in like
ancient days you know someone who's
going out to like find the Holy Grail or
defend his village or something or find
this magic ring or something and there's
always a destination in mind there's
always an end goal right and it might
take a long time there might be like
many different you know trails and side
tracks and things that happen along the
way
lots of challenge and transformation etc
etc but there is a goal right there is a
destination something that you're
working toward and so that's the
framework that I used for my quest and
that's what most of the people that I
talk to as well you know it is very much
about the process and the journey but we
are working toward something you know we
are hoping to reach that destination
at a certain point and I to work on lots
of different stuff and often get
sidetracked but I think one reason the
quest was successful and why it kept me
focused is I knew where I was going and
I had 193 countries and I could check
them off as I went along and put them in
my Evernote so I put a little X next to
them and I watched it grow in it and I
got tired at different points but I can
see the progress I had made and it
became like a cost-benefit analysis
after a certain point I'm like well I've
got 100 countries already am I going to
stop you know I've got 150 countries
there's only like you know 40 more to go
or whatever and so it helped a lot again
like what the other example is making a
meal for every country she could have
just said oh I'm gonna make a bunch of
foreign food right but not really that
specific and Robin's quest as well to
make 10,000 hats you know she always
liked knitting and she could just keep
doing that in spine and that's fine but
she talked about how having the number
gave her purpose the other thing is I
like deadlines
I think deadlines are our friends you
know if somebody ever gives me something
without a deadline I always tell them
that's dangerous because it you know
it's just gonna get pushed probably
right yeah I mean true
it's Parkinson's law - if I'm accurate
on now and I mean works expands to fill
the time allotted and it will just
expand forever
forever and ever unless we put some kind
of container really so deadlines are
great that's why I like doing live
events because there's a deadline I
can't you know if I've got like
thousands if people come in in town for
something I can't just be like oh I need
two more days you know come back you
know or with the book launch or
something but for me I chose my 35th
birthday as the deadline you know for
the quest and I chose that seven years
prior to finishing right and so as I got
closer and there were different
opportunities and I felt pressured in
different ways it kind of helped me to
keep that in mind I was like no I knew I
need to do like at least 20 countries a
year you know to achieve this goal and
if it gets hard I just have to figure it
out right so so deadlines are our
friends structure is our friends right
structure deadlines parameters you know
there's another quote that I liked in
the book this is from Elise blaha Cripe
she talked about how everybody's always
saying like entrepreneurs and creatives
should get out of the box right but for
me I want to get in the box I want to
define my own box I don't want someone
to be like here's your box right I want
to make my own box but once I've made it
I want to actually have clear parameters
and rules and that's the edge to the
scope of what I operate in and I'm
actually going to be more productive I'm
probably going to help the world a lot
better if I'm in my box and if i'm just
anywhere
everybody get in your box you heard it
from chris killable and of course my
mind is going place you don't wanna go
but just getting your box people because
it's good in there you Tory there was a
long thing no are you kidding me I liked
it and I can probably see the tweetable
of this episode Marine Chris are telling
you to get in your box um which is
brilliant hashtag get in your box so I
have to comment on something else though
because I think you and I are a little
similar and probably lots of folks that
are listening right now the absolute joy
that comes from crossing something off
your list immense uh in our team we have
these priority stocks that have very
clear structure and guidelines for the
things that we're working on and so we
can all see what we're doing and the
team including myself we get so friggin
excited when we cross things off and I
was thinking about this in the framework
of quest and how much fun that is when
define that container and you have
something you're excited about working
on and just putting those lines through
it's like really acknowledging the
journey and the joy and looking forward
to the destination which is great really
really great let me see here so that's a
lot of what I want to talk about you I
just think this is such an exciting
concept and I'm really really thrilled
if you are interested in the idea of
having your own class please go out and
get Chris's book it is fantastic you'll
not only learn about his but you'll
learn about so many other people's as
well and hopefully it will inspire you
to discover your own quest so Chris is
there anything else that we haven't
talked about any main points or things
that you find in writing this book that
you're like I really wish people would
either get this or know this or or
consider this for their own lives you
know what I hope for that they'll
consider is I hope that they'll think
about what the value of adventure means
to them I hope that they will think like
hey maybe I can't go to every country in
the world right but you know there's
something that I can do and I also feel
that stirring of wanting something
different maybe I'm discontented in a
way which again is not a terrible word
doesn't mean you're miserable it does
mean that you long for something more
and you want to improve your life and
and you know you do find joy in doing
things that are fun and meaningful and
connect with other people I hope that
you'll think about that I think maybe we
have a challenge for them in some
fashion oh yeah oh yeah with marietv you
know we always love to challenge you in
the comments below so this is what Chris
and I thought of for today
what does adventure mean to you that
word if it does mean anything like
travel if it means like pursuing a
spiritual goal or perhaps is athletic or
perhaps it's artistic what does it
venture mean to you and then the second
part that we'd love to hear is how can
you create a container a quest something
specific that kind of hones in that
beautiful adventure that calling that
you feel within your heart and make it
something that not only is achievable
for you that has a specific deadline but
of course that you could share and
connect with other people so we would
love to hear all about it in the
comments below so make sure that you
tell us Chris thank you so much for
taking
the time to share with us about your
quest in this brilliant new book that
you're sharing with the world we
absolutely adore you and just want to
thank you for being here today oh thank
you so much I adore you I adore furry TV
viewers I want to say one more thing if
I could jump in that's all right well
last time I did the book and we did the
show and I went on tour and at every
stop along the way I think I heard from
marietv viewers and so this time I'm
doing 40 cities again people can sign up
for free tickets on my website or they
can just show up they don't have to sign
up and I would love to see you so please
come out and say hi I'll take a picture
of you I'll text it to Marie and then
she'll probably block me because she'd
be like you said messages absolutely not
but it was just it was her big joy and
it made a huge difference for me last
time so I want to thank you publicly but
also all your viewers and great
community awesome thank you Chris and by
the way we will put links not only for
Chris's book but we'll put links back to
his website so that if you want to go
see him on tour and you want to make
this incredible man in person that
you'll know exactly where you can do it
Chris is amazing so as always thank you
so much for watching marietv if you
liked this episode like it and subscribe
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thank you so much for watching and we'll
catch you next time on marietv bye
everybody
another thing I think I've just really
quick eyes like the choices that we make
now affect the options available to us
in the future right and I often kind of
like give myself that self self talk a
lot you know when I don't feel like good
with that the choices that we make now
affect the opportunities available to us
in the future