can you take us through the process of
how you pitched abc
yes this is a question i get asked a lot
is
with um tv projects are very different
than film
tv you don't have to have a pilot you
let me rephrase that you have to have a
pilot if you have to write out a pilot
if you don't have a history of writing
like if you don't have a track record
haven't sold anything
now if you have you don't have to write
a pilot you have to write a pitch
but for most people who are coming up
you have to actually write the pilot for
the show
now what you do is you write a pilot for
a tv show it's whether it's 30 pages 60
pages you write that pilot episode and
then you write a tv pitch
now the pitch is only is would be a
verbal pitch you would pitch which is
only 10 minutes long
and all you cover is what the show's
about the characters
the beats and the pilot and where it's
going the next few seasons
you don't need to write like a 50-page
bible that's not what they want to hear
tv pitches
you're only supposed to pitch from eight
to ten minutes in a room and that's it
now they they will ask you a bunch of
questions afterwards if they're
interested
but you don't need to like do work i see
these people who write these 50 page
bibles and do all this work and you
don't have to do it that's not how you
get a tv show
sold tv show all you need is a like i
said the proper pitch
and which is a format which is just
simply about the show the characters
a few beats in the pilot where season
one's going and a few beats for season
two
that's all they care about they care
about the characters more than anything
and what the show's about
because you gotta live with those
characters for years and you have to
have a pilot now more likely if you sell
it they're gonna make you rewrite the
whole pilot anyway
but you have to show to the execs that
are buying things that you can perform
and write it
that's why if you don't have a track
record you have to have a pitch
and a pilot but if you do have a track
record you don't necessarily
have to write a pilot and they don't
even want you to nowadays because they
want to be involved in
in every step of writing the pilot so
not only having great characters but
characters that can actually grow
and go somewhere how are you factoring
any of that into this eight-minute pitch
or no
that's for them to decide can we go
anywhere with this character
no that that goes in your pitch and when
you cover season one and you talk about
where the show's going like
let's say it's ten episodes you don't go
episode by episode you just say kind of
you know start of season one middle
season one
end of season one but a lot of what
you're talking about is where the
relationships go
like if character a becomes involved
with character b and then character c is
upset about that so it's not so much
plotty as opposed to where the
characters fall into the storyline and
how they change and adjust because
he said tv you're living it's like being
married you know with these characters
if you have a show
and you're gonna do 50 episodes people
have to have a reason to keep coming
back to these characters so they have to
grow and change and things have to
happen to them
is there a certain time of year when you
can pitch networks
yes um not
let me rephrase that not so much anymore
it used to be
you would pitch like in i think it was
july through september
because then they would be starting to
set up for the next season but now with
streamers and all that it's kind of
year-round they'll take pictures any
time
it's only really in regards to abc's cbs
nbc like the big networks they still
stay more on a schedule
because they still like to have a lot of
shows come out you know in september
october that kind of time frame that
they've been doing you know for
decades but nowadays no not so much now
they'll listen to pitches almost any
time of the year
so it's kind of the streamers have
changed all that there's no real season
to anything
what are the steps to pitching a tv show
a lot well first of all you've got to
get a great pitch together
and usually you have a producer you're
working with who's taking you into the
you know the networks or a company like
the one we when we sold our show to abc
we had first set it up at lionsgate so
we went in to abc nbc we went to every
network in one week they make you do it
almost like consecutively so that
if one person is interested someone else
will also come aboard you know and
they'll get a
them playing against each other so you
almost go like you'll get a
pitch grid that's like 24 pitches in
like four days
and you just go place to place to place
do the same thing but you bring your
producers in and the real work
is working with your producers on the
pitch you know because
when we were very lucky that the
lionsgate execs had sold a lot of shows
and they were
really awesome people and they made us
do it with them work it over and work it
out
and had us they literally time us they'd
be like okay you only got eight minutes
go
and you do the pitch they give you notes
you rework it you rewrite it
and you do it again and again and
they're the final like kind of decision
makers about what the pitch is going to
be like because they're the sellers
really
even though you wrote the show so you
know that
there's going to be back to back this is
pitch week and so
i you plan out your whole sort of life
schedule around that
and wardrobe and you know
coming in with this producer like how
stressful is that to know that you're
going to be
on even though writers sort of don't
want that
yeah i'm very stressful um you just have
to do it
you just do it i mean a pitch gets
easier and easier the more you do it
you know so the first one or two might
be a little clunky but you just
the whole process is to really give them
what the show's about tv moves super
fast faster than phil
you get what the show's about and then
you try to get it after eight minutes
into conversation
get a conversational where hopefully
they ask you a bunch of questions and
you talk more about the show
but you only talk at them for like a
good eight minutes
can you talk about the bible versus the
pitch versus writing a pilot
yes well the the pilot's a pilot whether
it's a 30 page pilot 60 page pilot
which you have the pitch is like maybe a
six or seven page document maybe
less that you know you you verbally will
read to them in the room you usually
don't leave it behind
you go and because they like i mean with
covet it's a little bit different but
they've been doing it on zoom
you leave the pitch you do the pitch but
you don't leave it behind
now a bible doesn't get created until
the show has been ordered
so a lot of people get mixed up on these
the bible is like
the bible that explains the characters
the show so it's it adds
you know creates um continuity through
the writer's room
and from episode to episode so a lot of
people will be interested in creating a
bible it's like it's an unnecessary step
you don't do that till later in the
process there's only two things you need
a pilot and a pitch
if you're a new kind of screenwriter
wanting to sell a tv show
so don't worry about how do you make the
pitch bible or excuse me don't worry
about how you make the bible because you
know we get we see that
once that once it's greenlit or once
it's getting close to
to being told yes then yeah you're
putting the cart before the horse
okay yeah it doesn't need to be done and
most times too like
if they like your pilot more than likely
it doesn't i mean sometimes they'll be
like this is great let's shoot this
but more than likely they're going to
want you to rewrite the entire pilot
with their input
like there's something they really dig
they like it but they're going to want
to do it more their way
and if it's a big network or you know
tnt or
amc they know what they want you know so
they're going to be like this is great
but let's do it this way
how much time did you spend writing on
the pitch um it took
several passes at it so maybe it was
like about a month
where you maybe i mean not a month full
time but you know you kind of
work on it send it over work on it send
it over practice it a couple times
do it you know and and just get
everybody's input
you know so we were very lucky like i
said we had lines get involved which
there were several execs so they would
all hear it and they'd
put in their two cents or say justice
changed that that's great
um so yeah it's like a sales process
it's it's a creative process but it's
also like
selling something so that's a little bit
different of a mindset
so you know you have those eight minutes
but then what about the talking points
that are more conversational afterwards
are you preparing if they ask me this
then i'm going to say that
yes we would always write down some
talking points just to have them as
additional things but usually they would
ask enough questions
that it would get conversational and you
would you would encourage it you know
and try to talk about it
and also we brought in a few visual
presentation things too like
boards that had kind of the world and
some character stuff
so we know we realized really quickly
that if you bring those in
it's kind of uncomfortable for if you're
pitching to five or six execs for them
to just stare at you the whole time
for them so if you have like tone boards
and things they can look away and
i think it makes it more you know
relaxing for them
too because it's a very unnatural thing
for you just to be talking at somebody
and then just looking at you the whole
time
so and the tone boards made it more
conversational but yeah we actually
after one or two of those started
writing out talking points that kept
coming up and things to add on top of
the pitch that were like
more conversational so by the by the
23rd pitch
you had it down so well that you were
like why didn't i do it this way
to start out but yeah a little bit you
get you get really good at by the time
you're done
so yeah what other materials are needed
to pitch a network show
um it depends it's
i've heard some tv execs say
like thank god you didn't bring in a
visual presentation you know with the
the
you know the monitors and all the stuff
and because they see so many of those
so i don't think it's really
necessary because these are smart
executives if you're pitching to a tv
exec at netflix or somewhere they know
how tv works and they know if it's a
show so i
you know it helps depends if you're
world building then maybe it might help
a little bit more but
if it's like a drama in you know the
midwest
they get it they you don't have to show
them this looks what
uncle charlie looks like and this is you
know they know so so you don't really
need to bring money but you have to have
just a really solid quick pitch
and you know and and back it up and be
able to answer any questions they have
too
and the weird thing is sometimes they
don't ask anything and they're the ones
who buy it so you never know sometimes
they'll ask a million questions you're
like oh that went great and then
they pass so that's pretty much what you
got to do is just
just follow your your you know what you
think is best for that certain type of
show you know obviously if it was
something based on ip you would bring in
vip you know if it was a comic book
you'd bring in big
blow ups of the comic book and go these
are our characters but if it's a small
intimate thing you would i don't think
you need to do that
how many times have you pitched a tv
show pitched several
um that one sold a couple sometimes they
don't sell
and for various reasons like um
maybe somebody else just announced a
show that was very similar
you know so that happens as well um
and pitched a couple where we got hired
to write pilots but they never got on
air
so probably like five or six times and
two or three of them sold
but it's becoming more and more um
really competitive as of late because
now everyone's in tv
you know a couple years ago was a little
bit easier now they want you to bring a
whole package in
you know to pitch a tv show right now
you kind of need to bring in a
director of the pilot the showrunner you
know the the
the producers who are they want big
producers
to kind of get it going so it's become
much more competitive than was a couple
years ago
can you talk about how you actually got
in the room did you know
someone that brought you in well i was
fortunate enough that that i was
with paradigm agency at the time and um
had an amazing tv agent rich rogers and
he did it all he just said look i love
this pilot you guys are going to sell it
and let's go to production companies
first so we did that we went to six or
seven production companies lionsgate
paid paid us and bought the project and
then became our producers and then we
went out
and then lionsgate sets you up with the
the networks and the so it's a two-step
process
first your agent will get you with
producers if the producers latch on then
the producers take it over from there
and then they will set everything up for
you and take it out
and they make all the meetings and they
have a track record usually with these
networks and have other shows on there
with them so so two step process
so they want rept writers you're not
just meeting somebody
at a coffee shop and hey you know what i
want to bring you in why don't you
yeah i mean i think tv is a little bit
yeah harder than features to get in with
with
features you can get in i think a little
bit easier meet producers and talk tv's
a little bit
tougher without an agency but you know
it depends on what you're trying to do
if you're a screenwriter and you want to
work in tv are you trying to sell a show
or are you trying to become a
you know staff writer staff writer is a
lot easier selling a show is a big
you've got to put all these pieces
together and and have all this stuff
thought out
now if you write a good spec pilot and
you want to get on a tv show you can
maybe find an agent to send it out to
people
you know or meet people or work in a
writer's room like i said before
and you know being a writer's assistant
and get on a staff
that's a little bit that's a lot easier
than selling a show selling your shows
you're the creator and that's your show
so people now are bringing in teams you
said so show runners
yeah they want to package everything and
even sometimes actors
you know so and they would all come in
not barring
covet not being around but they would
all come in previously
as a group yeah yeah which that's a hard
package to turn down when you know jj
abrams walks in with his whole crew and
you know so
but that's the that's the advantage to
hooking up your pilot or your project
with a big production company
you know they can do that they can go
get you know show runners they can go
get those people so
tv's become very very competitive as of
late
you know and it wasn't always seems like
but you know it's it's become tv's
become a
beast you know last few years so it's
it's really great people making tv
so that's another question you have to
ask yourself is like look who i'm
competing against you know
so it might be better for somebody
starting out
to really write a spec pilot and try to
get in a writer's room
and try that should be your goal is like
how do i get on a staff
and write you know for two three years
make a living at it and then
make those connections get the agent
then you can write your own
you know project and get it out there
the bigger a production
budget the more problems no i've seen
that
i have found that you have the same
problems on a million dollar movie that
you do on a 10 million dollar movie
and i know people who have produced
hundred million dollar movies that said
they're the same problems on a million
dollar movie on a 100 million dollar
movie
it's always time money actors producers
screenplay it's the exact same problem
just more's at stake
is the stress level higher because more
is at stake
i would think so i've never produced 100
million movie but i get stressed out
producing just a million dollar movie so
i i would think so but across the board
you've heard from others that it's the
same doesn't matter
same problems that you know just the pay
is a lot less if you're doing a million
dollar film versus a 100 million dollar
film so
yeah i've heard people say the exact
same problems
did you pitch in the mirror did you no
okay