Here’s a name you should know:
Skripal is a 66-year-old former Russian spy who went on to become a spy for the British government.
He was arrested by Russian authorities in 2004 for his double agent work,
convicted of high treason, and jailed.
But then, in 2010, he was pardoned and released–as part of a spy swap between Russia and the US.
Remember Anna Chapman, the Russian spy caught in New York who went on to become a model?
The US exchanged her and other spies for people like Skripal getting to leave Russia.
He moved to sleepy Salisbury, England, with his wife.
But then, on March 4 of this year, Skripal was found unconscious on a public park bench in
Salisbury along with his daughter, who was visiting him from Moscow.
It turns out they had been poisoned with a nerve agent called Novichok.
Novichok is a chemical weapon developed in the Soviet Union.
The British government blamed the poisoning attack on Russia.
Russia denies it.
What has unfolded since then has amounted to some of the most tense international relations
between the UK and Russia in decades.
The British government has accused Russia of essentially carrying out a chemical weapons attack
on UK soil, and they've demanded that the Russian government provide an explanation.
Russian officials have either outright denied it, demurred, or blamed the poisoning on other
parties, including in the West.
And so the UK has brought in the big guns:
their many allies.
In the largest coordinated expulsion of Russian diplomats in history, 27 countries, including
the UK, US, France, and Germany, have ordered more than 150 Russian nationals to leave their countries.
The countries believe that many of these diplomats are spies.
This expulsion is actually bigger than any that took place during the Cold War.
And in retaliation, the Russian government has announced it's expelling more than 60 U.S.
diplomats and closing the American consulate in St. Petersburg, the second largest Russian city.
It’s all a lot of
that’s contributing to the sense that relations with
Russia are really the worst they’ve been in years.
Sergei Skripal, by the way, is still in stable condition at a hospital.
After four weeks of also being in critical condition, his daughter Yulia is
conscious and talking.
The actions by the Western governments are significant.
They're history-making, in fact.
And it’s worth noting that UK Prime Minister Theresa May was able to convince the Trump
administration, of all people, to join forces in this mass expulsion...
though President Trump himself is still hesitant to publicly criticize Vladimir Putin.
[UK PM May]: It is now clear that Mr. Skripal and his daughter were poisoned with a military grade
nerve agent of a type developed by Russia. This is part of a group of nerve agents known as Novichok.
The government has concluded that it is highly likely that Russia was responsible for the act against Sergei and Yulia Skripal.
VERSHA: But many observers say there’s a more effective way for the UK and other countries to respond
to Russian government aggression:
The sanctions that have been announced against Russia, in all different contexts,
are not sufficient.
If we want to get Putin, we have to go after the oligarchs.
Putin doesn’t hold any of this $200 billion dollars that I estimate to be his worth in his own name.
That’s Bill Browder, a man who has made himself an enemy of the Kremlin by traveling
around the world lobbying for governments to pass sanctions against Russian officials
and oligarchs.
He’s doing this all in the name of his friend,
Russian national Sergei Magnitsky,
who was imprisoned for investigating corruption in Russia and died in jail.
We’ll do a whole episode about him later.
It’s not only me who thinks that. Anybody who knows Putin thinks that.
Alexei Navalny, who is the leading, clear-thinking opposition candidate
who's not allowed to be an opposition candidate because they convicted him of crimes -
he said the same thing.
Marina Litvinenko, the widow of Alexander Litvinenko, said the same thing.
Anyone in the know knows that that is exactly what [Putin] cares about.
VERSHA: So we know that the UK expelled 23 diplomats over the poisoning that just happened there...
And I think you said: that's not - Putin's not going to care.
That's not going to bother him.
You believe that hitting that them financially is the better way to go.
BROWDER: Why does he hate the Magnitsky Act?
Because he values his money more than anything.
He’s not playing poker - we know what his cards are. And those are his cards.
So, if you know that’s what he values, and you know that he keeps that money, not in Russia,
but in the West, that’s his Achilles heel.
VERSHA: And a lot of that money is in London, right?
BROWDER: They love London.
The Russian government crooks love London.
VERSHA: Why is that?
BROWDER: They love London because it's close, it's a 4-hour flight [from Moscow],
they think their money is safe. Their money has been safe.
The British government has historically never investigated anybody for anything.
They think it's safe physically.
It was their total bolthole.
And they spent money like you cannot imagine on real estate.
I mean, it was this real estate boom for luxury premier properties 'cause Russians were just showing up
and bidding and outbidding each other for these fancy big houses.
They're called white stucco houses, these beautiful houses and these big garden squares.
And the Russians were buying these things up like they were going out of style.
And now they own them
And now we have our leverage.
VERSHA: For now, in the case of Sergei Skripal, there are reports that the UK government is going to take a
harder look at cleaning up some of the dirty money being stashed on their shores.
Now, that's not to say that all Russian money is dirty money, by the way;
It means specifically looking at oligarchs and officials with connections to the Putin regime
who have gotten rich through corrupt means.
Nuance is important when talking about these shady stories.
And if you don’t believe me, well,
take it from a guy who has been poisoned twice, himself.
[applause]
We often hear that Russians don't want freedom.
That they aren't ready for it.
That they've never had it and wouldn't know how to use it.
That all they need is a strong hand and a stern whip.
For several years now, I have been involved in a campaign to persuade Western governments
and Western parliaments to put an end to this double standard and to lay down a principle,
that if you're engaged in corruption and human rights abuse,
you will no longer be able to receive visas to come to Western countries,
or keep your money in Western banks,
or buy real estate in those countries, too.
If you do this, you actually assign responsibility where it belongs.
Instead of punishing the whole country for the actions of a small group of unelected individuals in the Kremlin,
you actually go after them.
I mean, it's a groundbreaking concept, it should really be a very simple one if you think about it,
you actually target responsibility where it is due.
These people want to steal in Russia but spend in the West,
and these measures prevent them from doing so.
So, I think this is the most likely reason for them trying to kill me - twice, in two years.
There’s nothing better that the Putin regime would like us to do than
to give up and run.
And I don’t think we should be giving this to them.
Because if we just stop and give up,
VERSHA: So, we’ve seen the poisoning of a Russian national on UK soil before.
But this kind of seemed to come out of nowhere, given that Skripal had a relatively low profile.
He wasn’t recently a vocal critic of Putin, am I correct?
BROWDER: That’s right.
VERSHA: So when the poisoning happened, what were you thinking then?
Were you surprised that this incident had happened closer to home?
BROWDER: Well, I was only surprised at the methods used.
The fact that they used a
in a NATO country.
VERSHA: Seems pretty aggressive.
BROWDER: In a terrorist incident.
Not only affecting their target but affecting up to 500 people [in the town] -
is a very, very aggressive move.
VERSHA: Do you feel like the UK government has responded in a sufficient way,
do you think they should be harsher?
Do you think the US should be harsher?
I know we also kind of played a waiting game here with President Trump,
whether or not he would pin the attack on Russia,
and now he has, today [March 15th].
BROWDER: Let’s just go back a little bit in history.
was a spy who was assassinated by the Russian Federation with radioactive materials
in the center of London.
And the British government proved that
at a judicial standard, that it was Russia behind it.
And there was no consequence.
And so I blame this current attack very much on the British government for not responding
to the previous attack.
Because by not responding to the previous attack,
it basically gave Putin the green light to do whatever he wanted to do in the UK again.
Now, why this guy, why now, what did he do?
And the answer is:
I don't think it has anything to do with this guy, or now, or what he did.
This is a message to all of [Putin's] security services,
all of his spies,
all of his secret policemen:
if you even think about disloyalty,
it doesn't matter when,
it doesn't matter where you are, it doesn't matter who you're with,
we will come, we will find you,
and we will liquidate you, and we will liquidate your entire family.
That's the message.
I’m not holding my breath [for the UK government response].
They haven't done a good job up until now,
They've done a pretty horrifying job of investigating Russian crime.
There is a political will, but let's see if that gets translated into action.
I have my serious doubts.
[MAY]: It is essential that we now come together with our allies
to defend our security, to stand up for our values,
and to send a clear message to those who would seek to undermine them.
[TRUMP]: Certainly looks like the Russians were behind it.
Something that should never ever happen.
There is no place for these people or their money in our country.
VERSHA: So, what is it like to survive an attack like this?
In upcoming episodes, we’ll have interviews with former Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko,
and you’ll see more from Russian opposition politician Vladimir Kara-Murza,
both of whom have been poisoned in the past in targeted political attacks.
And we’ll continue to follow the Skripal story.
But we want to know: what are your questions about all of this?
Please leave them in the comments below, or write to me online,
and I'll be sure to get back to you.
Thank you for watching The Russia Desk.