>> THE NEW YORK TIMES WROTE A FASCINATING EXPOS…
ON WHAT
HAPPENS TO WHITE-COLLAR WORKERS AT AMAZON.
WHAT THEY FOUND,
THROUGH INTERVIEWS THAT THEY WERE ABLE TO DO WITH THOSE WHO
CURRENTLY WORK WITH THE COMPANY AND WERE GIVEN PERMISSION TO
TALK TO THE NEW YORK TIMES, YOU FIND THAT THEY ARE NOT ONLY
OVERWORKED, BUT THEY ARE ACTUALLY PITTED AGAINST ONE
ANOTHER WHILE THEY ARE WORKING
IN THE CORPORATE OFFICES.
LET ME GIVE YOU A FEW EXAMPLES, AND
THEN YOU WILL UNDERSTAND WHY SO MANY PEOPLE BREAK DOWN AND CRY
AT AMAZON, OR THEY SUFFER FROM ULCERS.
"AT AMAZON, WORKERS ARE
ENCOURAGED TO TEAR APART ONE ANOTHER'S IDEAS IN MEETINGS,
WORK LONG AND LATE, AND BE HELD TO STANDARDS THAT THE COMPANY
BOASTS ARE UNREASONABLY HIGH.
THE INTERNAL PHONE DIRECTORY
INSTRUCTS COLLEAGUES ON HOW TO SEND SECRET FEEDBACKS TO ONE
ANOTHER'S BOSSES.
SOME WORKERS WHO SUFFER FROM CANCER,
MISCARRIAGES OR OTHER PERSONAL CRISES SAY THAT THEY HAVE BEEN
UNFAIRLY JUDGED.
YOU WALK OUT OF A CONFERENCE ROOM AND YOU'LL
SEE A GROWN MAN COVERING HIS FACE.
NEARLY EVERY PERSON I
WORKED WITH I SAW CRY AT THEIR DESK."
THAT'S A SMALL
TASTE.
IT IS INCREDIBLE BECAUSE
AMAZON, IT IS A TECH COMPANY AND USUALLY WHEN YOU
THINK ABOUT TECH COMPANIES YOU THINK OF A CUSHY WORK
ENVIRONMENT.
GOOGLE HAS CERTAIN THINGS THAT WORKPLACES TYPICALLY
DON'T HAVE, LIKE YOGA CLASSES.
>> FREE FOOD FOR EVERYBODY, BOTH FACEBOOK AND GOOGLE HAVE IT.
THEY HAVE AN ULTERIOR MOTIVE, THEY WANT YOU TO STAY AT YOUR
OFFICE AND NOT WASTE TIME GOING
TO GET FOOD AND COMING BACK, SO THEY THINK IT MAKES THEM MONEY
TO GIVE YOU FREE FOOD.
BUT NONETHELESS, IT FEELS CUSHY.
AT
AMAZON THERE IS NO FREE FOOD FOR ANYBODY, IT IS GO, GO, GO.
YOU ARE GIVING SOME OF THE WORST EXAMPLES, BUT I ACTUALLY
LIKE A LOT OF WHAT THEY DO.
>> GIVE ME SOME EXAMPLES.
>> BEFORE I DO, WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT HOW WE HAVE A SLIGHT
CONFLICT HERE.
PEOPLE THINK WE ADVERTISE FOR AMAZON, WE DO NOT.
WHAT WE DO IS THE STANDARD THING THAT A LOT OF COMPANIES DO
WITH AMAZON, WHICH IS, IF YOU BUY THROUGH OUR LINK WE GET A
PERCENTAGE OF THAT.
I JUST WANT TO BE ABSOLUTELY CLEAR WITH EVERYBODY THAT WE DO
HAVE THAT, WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THAT ON THE SHOW IN THE PAST.
>> THAT HAS NO IMPACT ON OUR COMMENTARY.
>> NOT AT ALL.
IT DOES NOT AFFECT MY COMMENTARY, HERE ARE
THE THINGS I LIKE.
I LOOK THROUGH
THE FOURTEEN PRINCIPLES.
NEW YORK TIMES APPEARS TO BE
CRITICAL, AND I HAVE A COUPLE OF ISSUES WITH IT THAT I AGREE WITH
YOU ON, BUT OVERALL, PRINCIPLE NUMBER FIVE.
HIRE AND EVOLVE THE
BEST.
PRINCIPLE NUMBER TWO, LEADERS IN THE COMPANY SHOULD
FEEL OWNERSHIP OF WHAT THEY DO.
PRINCIPLE NUMBER TWELVE,
DIVE DEEP AND OWN YOUR BUSINESS.
LOVE IT.
NUMBER EIGHT, BIAS
FOR ACTION.
NUMBER SEVEN, THINK BIG.
AS I LOOK THROUGH THE FOURTEEN PRINCIPLES, ON TWELVE OF
THEM I WAS LIKE, THESE ARE HOME RUNS.
>> ON ITS FACE IT SEEMS GREAT, BUT ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS
SCRATCH THE SURFACE AND SEE HOW IT IS ACTUALLY APPLIED AT
AMAZON AND IT IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT STORY.
I LOVE THOSE
FOURTEEN PRINCIPLES, THEY SOUND AWESOME, BUT I WOULD NOT WANT TO
PRACTICE IT THE WAY THAT IS BEING PRACTICED AT AMAZON.
THE
BIGGEST ISSUE THAT I HAVE IS THAT PEOPLE ARE ENCOURAGED TO
THROW ONE ANOTHER UNDER THE BUS, AND IT CREATES AN INCREDIBLY
HOSTILE WORK ENVIRONMENT.
"THE WORKPLACE SHOULD BE INFUSED WITH
TRANSPARENCY AND PROVISION ABOUT WHO IS REALLY ACHIEVING AND WHO
IS NOT.
WITHIN AMAZON, IDEAL EMPLOYEES ARE OFTEN DESCRIBED AS
ATHLETES WITH ENDURANCE, SPEED, PERFORMANCE THAT CAN BE MEASURED
AND ABILITY TO DEFY LIMITS.
ITíS BELIEVED THAT HARMONY IS OFTEN
OVERVALUED IN THE WORKPLACE ñ THAT IT CAN STIFLE HONEST
CRITIQUE AND ENCOURAGE POLITE PRAISE FOR BAD IDEAS.
INSTEAD,
AMAZONIAN'S ARE INSTRUCTED TO DISAGREE AND COMMIT TO RIPPING INTO
THEIR COLLEAGUEíS IDEAS, WITH FEEDBACK THAT CAN BE BLUNT TO THE POINT
OF PAINFUL, BEFORE LINING UP
BEHIND A DECISION.
>> THAT SOUNDS TERRIBLE, BUT THERE IS VALUE THERE.
LET ME
GIVE YOU SOME EXAMPLES.
ONE IS THAT SOUTH KOREA AIRLINES USED
TO CRASH AT A MUCH HIGHER RATE THAN ANY OTHER AIRLINES.
THIS IS
MANY YEARS AGO.
THEY HAD TO TRY
TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WAS GOING ON.
WHEN THEY INVESTIGATED, THEY FOUND OUT
IT WAS BECAUSE THE CULTURE WAS TOO POLITE.
THE COPILOT WOULD
RATHER DIE THAN SAY TO THE PILOT, WATCH OUT FOR THE
MOUNTAIN AHEAD.
OKAY?
AND THEN EVERYBODY IN THE PLANE DIES.
AMAZING, SO THEY HAD TO TRAIN THE SOUTH KOREAN PILOTS, STOP
BEING SO POLITE.
WHEN THERE IS A MOUNTAIN, SAY MOVE THE PLANE.
THAT'S PARTLY WHAT THIS CULTURE DOES, THE SECOND IS, WE DO HAVE
SOME OF THAT CULTURE HERE.
BUT IT IS NOT TO RIP YOUR
COLLEAGUES, IT IS TO RIP ME AND MANAGEMENT, BECAUSE THE MAIN
PROBLEM THAT MANAGEMENT WIND
UP HAVING IS, I AM RIGHT, AND WE WILL HEAD IN THIS DIRECTION
NO MATTER WHAT, BECAUSE I HAVE A
GIANT EGO.
BUT IF YOU DO THAT, AND YOU HAVE MADE EVEN A SLIGHT
ERROR, YOU ARE GOING TO KEEP COMPOUNDING THAT ERROR.
YOU NEED
TO HAVE A CULTURE WHERE PEOPLE ARE NOT AFRAID TO TELL YOU THE
TRUTH.
I DO AGREE WITH YOU THAT IT IS A DIFFERENT BALLGAME
WHEN YOU APPLY IT TO THE WHOLE TEAM, I DON'T WANT YOU GUYS
RIPPING EACH OTHER TO SHREDS.
I WANT TO BE A TEAM, SO THAT IS ONE OF THE TWO PARTS I
REALLY DISAGREE WITH AMAZON ON.
I DON'T THINK THIS FOSTERS A GOOD TEAM ATTITUDE AND I
THINK A TEAM IS CRITICAL TO WIN.
>> I'M REALLY GLAD YOU CLARIFIED THAT, BECAUSE I WAS SO READY TO
CALL YOU OUT.
HERE'S THE THING, I AM GOING TO GIVE YOU SOME
INSIGHT ABOUT US.
WE HAVE A REALLY GOOD COLLABORATIVE TEAM
RIGHT NOW, AND IT FEELS GOOD TO COME INTO WORK.
WE MAY NOT
AGREE WITH EACH OTHER'S IDEAS, BUT I THINK FOR THE MOST PART WE
HAVE COME UP WITH A GOOD WAY OF
LETTING EACH OTHER KNOW, MAYBE WE SHOULD GO A DIFFERENT DIRECTION.
EVERY
MORNING WE HAVE A PRODUCTION MEETING, AND PEOPLE SUGGEST
THINGS WE MIGHT NOT AGREE WITH.
IT IS OKAY TO SHUT THINGS DOWN,
BUT YOU DO IT IN A RESPECTFUL WAY SO YOU DO NOT FEEL LIKE YOU
ARE MAKING SOMEONE AN OUTCAST.
IN AMAZON'S CASE ITíS LIKE, HERE
IS A SECRET HOTLINE, CALL AND
UNDERMINED THE SHIT OUT OF EVERYONE.
YOU OF ALL PEOPLE,
CENK, DESPISE THAT.
>> I CAN'T STAND THAT.
DON'T TALK TO ME ABOUT WHAT OTHER
PEOPLE ARE DOING.
AND ANOTHER
THING THAT AMAZON IS DOING, THEY CULL THE HERD.
SO AFTER ALL THE
SHIT TALKING IS DONE, THEY GET RID OF THE BOTTOM TEN PERCENT.
HOWEVER THEY ARE RANKED.
IT IS A VICIOUS ATMOSPHERE THAT I WANT
NO PART OF, SO THAT I AM CLEAR ON.
>> AND SO THE MEDIAN NUMBER OF YEARS THAT A TYPICAL AMAZON
EMPLOYEE SPENDS AT AMAZON IS ONE YEAR, AND ONLY FIFTEEN PERCENT
OF THEIR CURRENT EMPLOYEES HAVE BEEN THERE FOR FIVE YEARS OR
MORE.
THEY HAVE RAPID TURNOVER, AND AMAZON WILL SAY, IT IS
BECAUSE WE HAVE THIS ROBUST HIRING SYSTEM AND THAT IS JUST
THE WAY IT WORKS AT TECH COMPANIES.
NO, YOU TREAT YOUR
EMPLOYEES LIKE SHIT.
LET ME GIVE YOU SOME EXAMPLES.
THIS IS THE
WAREHOUSE, WHICH IS DIFFERENT
FROM THE CORPORATE OFFICES.
AND BY THE WAY, IN 2011 AMAZON GOT
INTO A LOT OF TROUBLE BECAUSE THEIR WAREHOUSES WERE NOT
AIR-CONDITIONED, AND PEOPLE WERE LITERALLY PASSING OUT.
THERE
WERE AMBULANCES WAITING OUTSIDE THE BUILDING TO TAKE THEM OUT.
"IN AMAZON WAREHOUSES, EMPLOYEES ARE MONITORED BY SOPHISTICATED
ELECTRONIC SYSTEMS TO ENSURE THEY ARE PACKING ENOUGH BOXES
EVERY HOUR."
WHEN IT COMES TO
THINGS LIKE ILLNESSES OR FAMILY EMERGENCIES, IT FEELS LIKE THERE
IS ñ IT SEEMS THERE IS NO
EMPATHY.
"AMAZON IS WHERE OVERACHIEVERS GO TO FEEL BAD ABOUT
THEMSELVES."
"A WOMAN WHO HAD THYROID CANCER WAS GIVEN A LOW PERFORMANCE
RATING AFTER SHE RETURNED FROM TREATMENT.
SHE SAYS HER MANAGER EXPLAINED THAT WHILE SHE WAS OUT, HER
PEERS WERE ACCOUNTING FOR A GREAT DEAL.î
ANOTHER EMPLOYEE WHO MISCARRIED TWINS WENT ON A BUSINESS TRIP THE
DAY AFTER SHE HAD SURGERY."
>> WE HAVE TO BE CLEAR ABOUT THIS, THE COMPANY DID NOT CAUSE
A MISCARRIAGE.
ACCORDING TO THIS REPORT, THEY HAVE NOT MUCH
SYMPATHY FOR WHATEVER AILS YOU, WHETHER IT IS A MISCARRIAGE OR
CANCER, WHATEVER.
YOU GOTTA GET BACK ON THAT TREADMILL RIGHT
AWAY.
SO, YES, I WOULD NEVER DO THAT, IT IS NOT AN ATTITUDE I'M
IN FAVOR OF, BUT ñ LET'S BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT THIS, IT IS
IMPORTANT ñ FOR WHITE-COLLAR EMPLOYEES, THEY ALL SIGNED ON TO
THIS.
NOBODY PUT A GUN TO THEIR HEAD, NOBODY MADE THEM DO IT,
OFTEN TIMES THEY ARE THE TOP OF THEIR FIELD AND HAVE MANY
OPTIONS.
THAT IS WHY THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE WAREHOUSE
AND THE WHITE-COLLAR EMPLOYEES
IS DRAMATIC.
IN THE WAREHOUSE, YOU CAN'T BE DISMISSIVE AND SAY,
GO GET ANOTHER JOB.
THAT MIGHT BE A SITUATION WHERE THERE ARE
NOT A LOT OF JOBS FOR PEOPLE
DOING, YOU KNOW, WORKING WITH THEIR HANDS, LABORERS, WHATEVER.
YOU KNOW YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG WHEN YOU ASK FOR
THE AMBULANCES TO LINE UP OUTSIDE YOUR WAREHOUSE, KNOWING
THE WORKERS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO GO OUT TO THAT AMBULANCE, LIKE
THAT'S PART OF YOUR BUSINESS PLAN.
IF THOSE REPORTS ARE
TRUE, THAT IS DAMNING.
THAT TO ME IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CLASS, BUT YOU
GOT GUYS COMING OUT OF STANFORD, MICROSOFT, GOOGLE, THEY CAN
GO ANYWHERE.
THEY SIGN UP FOR THIS KNOWING WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO GET.
THAT'S NOT MY BUSINESS, THEY WANTED TO SIGN ON, THEY
WANTED TO MAKE MORE MONEY AND WORK HARD AND PUSH THEMSELVES.
AMAZON IS THE RIGHT PLACE FOR YOU.
>> PRIOR TO THIS NEW YORK TIMES EXPOS…, I DON'T THINK
PEOPLE REALLY UNDERSTOOD WHAT WAS GOING ON, SO I THINK IT
IS UNFAIR FOR YOU TO SAY
THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE GETTING THEMSELVES INTO.
>> THE HIRING PROCESS MAKES IT VERY CLEAR.
>> I DON'T THINK THEY SIT POTENTIAL HIRES DOWN AND GO,
YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE CANCER WE'RE
NOT GOING TO GIVE A SHIT.
YOU NEED TO ANSWER EMAILS AT THREE IN THE
MORNING WHEN SOMEONE IS ASKING A QUESTION.
I DON'T THINK THEY
UNDERSTAND JUST HOW SEVERE THE CONDITIONS ARE, BUT I GET WHAT
YOU ARE SAYING, THEY DO TELL THEM THIS IS GOING TO BE
DIFFICULT.
SOME PEOPLE DO SIGN UP FOR IT, AND FIFTEEN PERCENT
OF THEM CAN LAST MORE THAN FIVE
YEARS, WHICH IS INCREDIBLE.
>> NOBODY IS PUTTING A GUN TO THEIR HEAD, IF YOU WANT TO LEAVE
AFTER YEAR, LEAVE.
YOU DON'T LIKE IT THAT THEY WEREN'T
PLEASANT TO YOU WHILE YOU WERE SICK?
I HEAR YOU, THEN LEAVE.
BUT NOBODY IS MAKING THOSE HIGH-LEVEL EMPLOYEES, MAKING A
LOT OF MONEY, WORK AT AMAZON.
SO IF AMAZON SAYS, THIS IS THE
PLACE TO GO IF YOU LIKE THAT COMPETITIVE ATMOSPHERE, YOU LIKE
TO BE DRIVEN TO YOUR MAXIMUM
POTENTIAL AND A LITTLE BIT BEYOND, AND THAT IS WHAT WE
DO, YOU GET TO MAKE THAT CHOICE.
IF YOU MAKE THAT CHOICE, I AM NOT GOING TO CRY THAT MUCH
FOR YOU.
>> AND BY THE WAY, AMAZON IS NOT DOING ANYTHING ILLEGAL.
EVERYTHING IT WAS MENTIONED IN THE NEW YORK TIMES IS OKAY,
LEGALLY SPEAKING.
I THINK MORE THAN ANYTHING, THIS PIECE
HIGHLIGHTED WHAT THE REALITY IS AT A BIG CORPORATION.
THEY ARE
AMORAL.
WHEN THERE IS A PROFIT LINE, THEY DON'T NECESSARILY
CARE ABOUT THE PEOPLE, THEY NEED TO HAVE A COMPETITIVE EDGE, EVEN
IF THAT MEANS RUNNING PEOPLE TO THE GROUND.
>> I DON'T KNOW THE CEO, BUT BASED ON EVERYTHING HE HAS DONE
HE WOULD SAY, I AM HELPING THESE PEOPLE FEEL OWNERSHIP OVER
SOMETHING, AND FEEL GOOD ABOUT CREATING THE BEST PRODUCTS,
SERVING THE CONSUMERS THE BEST THAT THEY CAN, WHICH IS A DEEPLY
MORAL THING TO DO, WE DO WHAT WE HAVE TO TO GET THE VERY BEST OUT OF THEM.
THEY WILL LOOK BACK AND SAY THAT THOSE WERE THE BEST YEARS THEY
HAD, AND SOME OF THEM IN THE NEW
YORK TIMES ARTICLE DO SAY THAT.
ONE WOMAN SAID SHE DID NOT SLEEP
FOR FOUR DAYS STRAIGHT, BUT SHE SAID, THESE BUSINESSES WERE
MY BABIES, I DID WHATEVER I COULD TO MAKE THEM SUCCESSFUL.
SO SHE GOT SOMETHING OUT OF IT.
>> SHE DID EVERYTHING SHE COULD TO MAKE HER BUSINESSES
SUCCESSFUL, THAT DOESN'T MEAN SHE LOVED THE EXPERIENCE AT
AMAZON.
BUT I GET WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, WORKING FOR A COMPANY
LIKE THAT, IF YOU CAN HANDLE IT FOR X AMOUNT OF YEARS, DOES MAKE
YOU A STRONGER EMPLOYEE ONCE YOU ARE READY TO MOVE ONTO SOMETHING
ELSE.
THAT DOES GIVE YOU A COMPETITIVE EDGE, BECAUSE YOU
HAVE DEALT WITH THE WORST.
>> THERE ARE SOME THINGS I CAN'T STAND, LIKE MONITORING THE
EMPLOYEES EVERY MINUTE.
I HATE DOING THAT TO PEOPLE, I'D HATE
IF THEY DID THAT TO ME.
ON THE OTHER HAND, SAYING WE NEVER
SETTLE, WE ALWAYS STRIVE FOR EXCELLENCE, AND SAYING TO THE
LEADERS, NO TASK IS BENEATH YOU, WELL I LOVE THAT.
I THINK IT IS
MUCH MORE OF A MIXED BAG THEN OTHERS THINK, THAN ANA
THINKS, BUT CLEARLY AN
INTERESTING PLACE TO WORK.
IF YOU ARE READY FOR IT, BUCKLE UP.