- Hey everybody.
A few weeks ago,
I put out a video about religious trauma,
and it really resonated with a lot of you.
And I got a ton of wonderful comments.
And so today, I'm gonna comment on your comments
because I think there's a lot more
that we can still talk about.
And as always, I'm happy to do more videos about the topic.
I can definitely do one on how we heal,
but let's just jump right into it.
And the first comment is, it makes me feel ashamed to admit,
but being brought up religious
left deep psychological wounds based around shame
and notions of not being good enough or defective.
There were so many comments about shame
and what I would call inappropriate guilt,
meaning misplaced guilt.
And I did a video on my channel recently about shame.
If you don't know what shame is,
we can be ashamed of something we've done, right?
Meaning we can be upset and hate that we did it.
Ooh, I don't like what that says about me.
I don't want people to think that about me.
However, if those thoughts and that thought process
becomes chronic meaning more days than not,
we feel that way about ourselves,
they can turn into shame or toxic shame.
Meaning I think something inside me is broken.
I must be wrong in some way,
because this keeps happening to me.
Or I keep thinking this way,
and this can play into religion a lot
because a lot of religious conversations
can be around like, oh, if you're doing that,
then you're letting the devil creep in.
Or that's a sin or that's wrong, right?
There's a lot of this like black and white,
right and wrong talk in church.
And that unfortunately can lead to a lot of shame
and misplaced guilt.
And I also wonder if this shame narrative
is coming out of our own identity.
And if we don't,
maybe let's say we're part of the LGBTQ plus community
and our church doesn't support that.
I wonder if that's causing shame
or if there are things that we've done in our past,
maybe prior to coming to church
or things that they say are unforgivable.
I know there's been terms like that
thrown around in the church I grew up in.
I don't know if that is, rings true for any of you,
but that kind of feeling can just make it impossible for us
to not feel like something's wrong with us, right.
Or if I think differently or have questions
about my religion, then something must be wrong with me too.
'Cause I definitely heard that a lot when I had questions
about like, well, what if people in other parts of the world
never heard about Jesus then are they sinners,
and they're not gonna go to heaven as well?
And they were like,
why do you have to ask questions like that?
Those aren't questions that we're gonna talk about.
Like I was made to be like ashamed or embarrassed
for the fact that I was even questioning things like that.
And so I can see how religion,
certain narratives within religious culture
can lead to shame.
And I don't know if that's something you've experienced,
but I saw a lot of this in the comments.
The next chunk of comments I wanna talk about
are in relation to that one phrase that I hated
was just like, God never gives you more than you can handle.
And someone says,
"I heard the God only gives you what he knows
you can handle," thing a lot growing up
and through early adulthood still bugs the crap out of me
to hear that.
And I was just so interested in the fact that so many of you
had the same feelings and thoughts that I did about that.
And I think a lot of people,
at least in my church set it as a way to be like,
it's gonna be okay, don't worry.
It was like their way of saying you'll get through this.
But instead of saying, you'll get through this or like,
God never gives you more than you can handle.
And I felt that to be so invalidating or minimizing
and kind of just a push off.
And that is just another reason that some of that toxic,
some toxic religious communities can harm us
and cause us to be traumatized.
And also, I just wanna add in there,
if any of you are some of the people
who may be views this phrase before
to show support and love,
how about instead we say something like, I'm so sorry,
or that sounds like it's really hard, or I'm here to listen,
help me understand what you're going through.
I'm so sorry that happened.
Any of those phrases are so much more validating,
supportive and encouraging, not to mention empowering
rather than God never gives you more than you can handle
because that just, like I said, just feels like a brush off.
Now, the third comment I wanna comment on says wow,
straight onto my favorite video list.
Oh, I'm so glad it was helpful.
I have a lot of religious trauma stemming from my childhood
and teenage years, but I really like having faith.
And I found that being spiritual is so, so helpful
in moments of grief and has helped me not live in fear,
knowing that there's something bigger than me.
I can understand that,
but it's so hard to identify how to join a healthy,
faithful establishment without making myself vulnerable
to weaponization.
This video was so good at listing out the major things
we need to look out for.
Thank you so much, Katie.
Now, what really struck me with this is the difference
between having beliefs and how important that can be
for a lot of us, all of us have beliefs,
whether they're religious-based or not.
And having beliefs is kind of the foundation
from which we create our sense of self
and who we are, right?
So there's a difference between having those beliefs
and weaponizing beliefs,
meaning we're using religion as a way to harm
and the beliefs that they have, like,
let's say you're in one of those churches that isn't a fan
of the LGBTQ plus community.
They could say being attracted as a female to another female
or being gay is against the Lord's wishes.
And so we're using this belief as a weapon to hurt someone
or like not saving yourself till marriage
is a sin in God's eyes
and it makes you a bad person or whatever.
And I think that's a huge,
that's a really important distinction to make
is that it's okay to have beliefs.
We all have them.
It's okay to be spiritual.
But when we use beliefs as a weapon to harm someone else,
that's when it becomes toxic.
And that's when it becomes traumatizing.
And I've kind of touched on this throughout the others.
But the fourth common I wanna talk about or comment on
says, "I told my minister about my gay thoughts
when I was 13, he told me he could help me.
We have many conversations in which he told me
that my thoughts and feelings were bad."
I'm so sorry.
"That this was the devil talking to me.
He told me my feelings were not real.
And if I acted on them, I would go to hell.
I'm in a relationship now but the shame is still in me."
There were a lot of comments about sexuality
and sexual identity.
And I've heard in churches all the time they'll say,
love the sinner, hate the sin.
Even that phrasing just, ooh, I don't like it,
blah, blah, blah.
But when this quote, unquote, sin is our sexual identities,
our sexuality is who we are that can lead to a lot of shame
'cause we can believe
something is inherently wrong with us, right?
Who I am, and what I desire in my life, who I love,
who I'm attracted to is wrong.
Then I must be wrong.
Something must be wrong with me.
And that just proves how careful we have to be with language
when it comes to religion and spirituality
and the way we talk about our beliefs and sins
and right and wrong again, that black and white,
that's never gonna lead us to anywhere healthy or happy.
And I'm so sorry to anybody out there
who's had one of these traumatizing events
or traumatizing conversations at the hands of someone
who was supposed to be a spiritual leader
or a religious guide to help us feel good about who we are
and strong in our identity.
Because again, using those beliefs as weapons
is traumatizing.
And I also don't wanna leave out the fact
that there are a lot of religious spaces.
I know a ton of them in Los Angeles
that are open to the LGBTQ plus community,
and aren't so focused on this,
what I would call like a traditional way of living,
meaning it's only heterosexual people get married.
These things you have to do,
like that's the only right way.
There are other religious spaces that are more open
and accepting of all walks of life,
of all choices, of all sexualities.
And sometimes it's just finding that right space.
If you still want church to be part of your life.
And religion is really important to you.
I encourage you to seek that out.
The next comment I wanna comment on says, "Sending love
and healing to everyone.
I am still healing
from the modest is hottest purity culture."
Oh my God, I remember that phrase.
It takes me back.
Now, if you don't know what the purity culture is,
I could probably do an entire video about it.
Let me know in the comments,
if that's something you'd be interested in,
but in the '90s,
which is like most of my childhood and adolescence,
purity culture was rampant in every church, to be honest.
And all of this purity around like modest is hottest.
I remember like not being able to wear shorter skirts.
It had to be at least to my knees
and like where my hands hit, and I just had this, oh my God.
Okay, my youth group leader or youth pastor,
his wife would wear like v-neck shirts.
'Cause back in the day, these v-necks were very on-trend.
But because modest is hottest,
she would wear these like tank top things
that would come up to here and she was always pulling it up
and she would say, "We can't give men temptation.
We can't do that.
That's a sin."
And it was just a very bizarre conversation
that it's like my responsibility as a female
to not tempt a man,
because what he's not responsible or accountable
for his actions.
I don't know.
That's some like crazy mind fuckery if you asked me.
So anyways, I remember all about purity culture
and just how toxic that can be,
and it's frustrating as a woman,
how looking back it was, it only applied to the women.
And I remember having to change all sorts of outfits
and do all this stuff just to be very modest.
And I even remember, as I grew up, I've even,
I'm not this way anymore,
but like changing in a locker room at school
was overwhelming to me
because it's supposed to be super modest
and not let anybody see you.
And I dunno, it was almost like the naked body is dirty
or a sin, or I dunno, what kind of messages
I somehow like received and accepted
and like rooted in myself,
but it definitely messed with me for many, many years.
The next comment I wanna comment on says,
"Thank you for bringing religious trauma to light,"
of course, of course.
"Coming out was truly the hardest thing I've ever done
because of my connection with the church over 10 years ago.
I find myself missing that connection.
But the damage was certainly done."
I was so moved by how many of you felt that loss
and wanting that community and that connection,
but knowing that the religious aspect of it
or that particular religious gathering place was too toxic,
too traumatizing for you and you had to leave.
And I think it's important for us to just acknowledge
how much grief we might feel
and allowing ourselves to grieve that loss.
It was a loss.
We had this dream of what it was or this belief
about what it was gonna be.
And it wasn't,
and that grief can be palpable,
could be heavy, and it's okay to cry about it.
It's okay to be angry about it.
It's okay to bargain with it.
Grief is grief and I'd encourage each and every one of you,
if you're feeling this way,
allow yourself some time and space to grieve
and just know that it is okay
to go seeking community somewhere else.
Healthy communities do exist,
and we can have healthy discourse and connection
even if our beliefs differ.
We don't have to agree 100% with anyone.
And I also want you to know
that when you're seeking out a community that's healthy
and non-toxic or non-traumatizing,
just make sure that there is support
for each and every one of you to grow, to ask questions,
to change, to challenge our old ways of thinking.
All of those are good things to look out for and good,
I guess, ways to know you're on the right path
and you're in the right community.
Anything that tells you, you can't change.
Can't question like when I got in trouble for asking,
like what about people who never heard of God?
Would they go to hell?
That's not a healthy community.
You shouldn't be shamed for asking questions.
That should be something that's supported
and something that's encouraged.
The next comment I wanna comment on says, "This is so hard,
especially when you're in a relationship with someone
who still believes and has a wildly different experience
with the religion than you did.
My husband and I were raised in the same religion
and married in that religion.
And in the last few years,
I've started acknowledging my religious trauma
and pulling away.
But his experiences within the same church
were so different from mine.
And what I experienced as traumatic
has been uplifting for him.
That's been incredibly hard to navigate in our relationship
as we both try to respect the other's experiences."
This comment really struck me.
And what I really wanna talk about here
is the importance of listening from each other.
And just because we went to the same church,
or had the same pastor, or went on that same trip,
knowing that we can have different experiences.
And I know as, like I said,
a lot of the things that I found upsetting and traumatizing
or shame-filled really were directed at women.
And so if Sean had been at the same church with me,
he might've had a different experience.
He might've when they were,
'cause when I would go on retreats and stuff,
I'm sure most of you felt this way too,
or had the same experience.
The women were separated from the men
because we don't want any temptation.
Don't wanna let the devil in there, right?
Whew.
And so we were always separated
and we had a lot of like nighttime Bible studies,
women separate from men.
And it was in those conversations
that I found most of the toxic and harmful behavior
to take place.
And so leaving space for conversations and understanding,
and I think is gonna be key.
Obviously it's key in any relationship,
and this is your husband.
So you're married.
And I think hopefully you two can communicate about this.
He can be understanding.
He can understand that what might've been helpful for him
was harmful to you.
And I think really what I would encourage you to do
is just have more of those conversations.
Remember whenever we're having difficult conversations,
we don't have to get it all out at once.
I would encourage you just to focus on like one point
or three little points,
and then ask him for what you need from him,
which at this point might just be,
I just really would like you to listen and hear me out
because I'm really struggling.
And I think putting it out there in that way
in allowing for these conversations to be heard,
can hopefully bring you and your husband closer
and help him understand
that while his experience might be one way,
yours can be the other and they both can exist,
and they can both be true and real.
The next comment I wanna comment on
is kind of like indoctrination versus belief.
And it says, "I used to be a Christian,
but I lost faith in my friends and family,
but I'm still being forced to go to church,
even though I'm an atheist."
Now, if you're looking for a religious space that's healthy,
there shouldn't be any forcing involved.
I know a lot of us, myself included,
grew up in a household where you had to go to church.
Like I remember being woken up and it wasn't like,
you could say no.
As I got older, my brother didn't wanna go anymore.
So he would say no, and he was allowed to stay,
but I still had to go.
And part of me did it to please my mom.
But it's weird how you can feel forced.
And in any healthy religious space just know
that it should come from within first, like your want,
your desire to go to church and to develop your spirituality
or belief system starts from within and works outward,
not the other way around.
Anything that feels like you're forced and you have to
in that black and white again, that all or nothing,
you're in, or you're out,
you're a sinner or you're not your pure,
that's where it's unhealthy.
Any healthy religious space is going to give you the time
and space needed for you to figure out what you believe.
And we all are gonna need some time
to kind of sort through that.
It shouldn't feel forced upon us without any choice.
That's what's traumatizing.
And another comment I got says,
"Does this correlate with a cult?"
Now, there were a ton of comments and questions about cults,
and I'm really just putting this one out here to say,
if you want me to do an entire video about what cults are.
I have some books about them.
I have some articles I've pulled.
I just didn't.
I felt like I couldn't do it justice
just in a commenting on comments.
So you let me know in those comments,
if you'd like to see that,
but let's move on to our final question,
our final comment rather says,
"Too many therapists are unsupportive of,
or even downright hostile to non-religious
or non-believer clients.
It's demonizing to pay a therapist and open up to them
only to have them effectively tell you
that the reason you're broken
is because you need to develop a spiritual side."
How do these people have their license?
So it's nice to see a therapist who actually acknowledges
that religion can be harmful.
Oh my God, I cringed when I read this and I'm so sorry.
Just like any job, unfortunately,
therapists are people and they can suck at their jobs
and be bad at them.
And that is wrong and that's traumatizing,
and you should file a complaint.
We're licensed through our state boards
and people can file complaints against us
if we've done something that's not okay.
And I believe that's very not okay,
but just know anybody out there who's seeking a therapist
or wondering if their therapist is doing a good job.
I have a video about how to know
if you're seeing a good therapist and a bad therapist,
so you can search for those and look into that.
And that will hopefully help a little bit,
but just know that a therapist works for you,
and our job as therapists is to learn about your experience
from you not to judge, not to make assumptions,
not to tell you that you're broken
because you're not religious.
I'm supposed to learn from you, what's going on,
and what you're wanting to work towards,
set some goals with you and help you work back from those
or towards those really.
But you know how you like to set your final goal
and then work backwards.
That's my job.
And that's what I love doing.
And I love encouraging people to grow and to change
and to become better versions of themselves.
And none of that includes judgment,
and saying that because you're not religious,
that's where your problems are coming from.
Like, oh, that's just the devil.
Did they not go to school?
I'm very, I don't want to talk about, I'll go.
It's too much.
You know how I stand on this?
I think that's really inappropriate.
You could file a complaint if you felt so inclined,
but just know that that's not all therapists,
and you can also find therapists.
You can ask right away.
I think it's fair to ask a therapist
if they are religious, if they're okay,
if someone's not religious,
you can ask that stuff straight up,
because we need to find someone
who will help us heal from the religious trauma.
We don't need to layer it on more and more.
Again, I'm so sorry that happened to you.
Finding a good therapist is really important,
especially when we're doing this kind of work.
I hope you enjoyed this video.
Just something different, right?
We had so many great comments,
so many great questions.
If you have other comments and questions,
I'm happy to do more of these.
Keep them coming.
Thank you so much for watching.
Have a wonderful rest of your week,
and I'll see you next time.
Bye. (calm piano music)