THOMAS: Well, and then there's a third alternative that Dr. Lloyd-Jones had that it's not the
unbeliever or the Jew, but the person who has been awakened but isn't yet a believer. So, he's
under conviction of sin. He's near the kingdom of God. This is Lloyd-Jones' view in Romans 7.
And I take the classic Augustinian Calvinist interpretation that the second half of Romans 7
is a description of a believer, a believer caught in the tension between the now and the not yet,
wrestling daily with the fact that we are Christians but we continue to sin. "The good that
I would I do not. The good that I would aspire to I do not. And the evil from which I would
run," you know, "that I find I do. Oh, wretched man that I am!"
So, I take the classic Augustinian Calvin view of the second half of Romans 7.
LAWSON: That's a Lawsonian view also.
THOMAS: I think that a lot of modern Reformed commentaries on Romans disagrees with that view,
but I see absolutely no reason to. It is certainly my experience. You know, apart from the logistical
argument of what Paul might be saying in Romans 7, the fact is that that language coincides
remarkably closely to my experience of what it is to wrestle with sin every day.
And I can't imagine language, different language that would better describe that.
LAWSON: You know, I would add to that, just you know, context is
an important key in interpretation, that Romans 7 is not sandwiched in between Romans 1 and 2.
It's not sandwiched in between Romans 2 and 3, which is the experience of the unbeliever
and condemnation. It's sandwiched between Romans 6 and 8. It's in the middle of the section on
sanctification of the believer. And so, just the mere location of that passage to me screams
volumes that this is dealing with the sanctification of a believer. And the first
half of the chapter, the first thirteen verses does address, I think, Paul's pre-conversion
as he's under the law. And he even says the law is good and holy and right and it was the means by
which he came to the knowledge of sin and his need for a savior. But even that part is really setting
up the second half of the chapter, which is really the most important part. And then when
you get to the end, he goes, "Oh wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body
of sin?" Unbelievers aren't talking like that. It's Christians who are wrestling with their sin,
"Thanks be to God who gives us the," you know. That's a believer. That's not an unbeliever.
So, I think clearly the second half is addressed to a believer. And it segues into chapter 8,
which I know you spoke on last night in the ministry of the Holy Spirit in the believer.
It's just a logical sequence. It's a linear argument in the book of Romans.