-Welcome back to "Late Night." We're here with Chris Hayes.
You wrote a "New York Times" essay.
-I did. -Making the case for why you
wanted Twitter to survive.
I think that this is a time where a lot of people
talk about what a cesspool it is.
I liked reading about the fact
that it has also been a wonderful place.
-Yeah, there's lots of things that have been
really remarkable about it.
I mean, one of the things I think --
The thing that was best about it is, because of how
it was structured, in which you weren't necessarily just in one,
you know, one part of Reddit, right,
like, "Oh, I'm an electric car enthusiast,"
I'm on, like, the Reddit board, you had this sort of general
feed, and because of the way retweets worked
and the algorithm, you would happen upon stuff.
You know? And so for me as a --
particularly as a news gatherer, you know, there'd be
an impending railroad strike, and then all of a sudden
I would have like three or four people that work
on the railroad talking about, like, "This is why we want
paid leave," and this is why this new system they use
in the railroads is totally oppressive and brutal,
scheduling-wise, and you would have this
for a million different experiences.
You would get these windows, and again, that could be
dangerous because a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Like, I know about the railroads now, right?
-Yeah. -I followed these three people.
But I found, for me, the breadth of experience and perspectives
that were all mixing in one place, there really hasn't ever
been anything quite to replicate that,
and I don't want it to go away.
-And what do you think in the early days of Elon Musk's,
you know, running of Twitter -- are you -- I mean, again,
you're not a business guy, but are you basically thinking,
"He's nailing it," right?
-[ Laughter ] -I mean, it's 10 out of 10.
As far as I can tell. -10 out of 10, yeah.
Every part of it. -I mean, I'm not in the books
but I think pretty much -- -[ Laughs ]
-Sounds like pretty much -- No, it's been pretty disastrous.
I mean, I think the thing that I actually have --
that has been clarifying for me, I think there was --
First of all, it felt a little bit like an impulse purchase.
-Yeah. -[ Laughter ]
-Like he was at the cash register and there was like
a $44 billion social-media company.
-[ Laughter ] -Yeah.
-So that was weird, that he --
It was the most expensive impulse purchase of all time.
I think that what he's been doing with the platform now is
actually very clarifying to me because it wasn't about
the business and it wasn't an impulse purchase.
It was an ideological purchase.
And as long as there have been rich people,
and as long as there have been rich people and capitalism,
plus a free press, there have been rich people who buy
media outlets for ideological purposes.
This is a story as old as time.
And once I sort of saw it as that, I was like, "Oh!
That's what this is."
He wants to own Twitter because he wants to pursue his vision
because he's the world's richest man.
The other thing I think is key here is --
You know, I'm one of these people who is
A, a Twitter addict, and B, it's, like, "partly my job."
-Yep. -It's like if you're, like,
working at RJR Nabisco, and you're like, smoking two packs
a day, you're like, "Well, it's the product. You know?
I gotta test it." -[ Laughter ]
It's like, that's sort of me.
But that's also Elon Musk.
I think he bought it so he could be like, "I'm working."
-Yeah! -[ Laughter ]
That's so smart. Right.
Like when my wife is like, "Are you still on Twitter?"
-Like, "I'm working!" -"I bought it, honey!"
-Yeah. -[ Laughter ]
-I gotta be on it. I bought it.
Can I just say you crushed Twitter from the start?
-Oh, this is amazing. -We went back and looked.
And like a lot of us, it took us time to figure out how to be
good at Twitter, but we went back to your first four tweets.
This is April 12, 2007.
I want to reveal them as we go.
So, that's "working on a presentation in Keynote."
Thank you for that.
-[ Laughter ] -Yep.
One heart right there. -One heart, right.
-[ Laughter ] -Hearted it up.
-By the way, like, imagine retweeting that.
[ Laughter ]
Like imagine someone being like,
"Oh, I want my followers to see that."
Alright, then you come back with,
"in a coffee shop working on a draft."
[ Laughter ]
More likes but less retweets.
-Mm-hmm.
-"Reading blogs and craving caffeine." Oh!
-That was a perpetual state of being.
-And then this is maybe the most --
the flattest tweet I've ever seen.
[ Laughter ]
"Listening to Terry Gross."
[ Laughter and applause ]
-Well, at least I'm not -- -Now, I'm -- By the way,
I listen to Terry Gross. I love Terry Gross.
I've never, while I've listened to Terry Gross, think...
-Tweeted that? -..."I gotta let people know."
[ Laughter ]
-At least I'm not a caricature of myself.
I will note, for my -- to defend my honor here, briefly,
do you remember back then the Twitter prompt was,
"chrislhayes is..."?
-Ah! -That was the prompt.
The prompt was like --
It was like a status away message.
Like you used to have on AIM back in the day, people our age.
And so, like, the setup was, "What are you doing right now?"
-Tell us what you're actively doing right now.
-Exactly. Just, you know -- -Okay, gotcha.
But I evolved. I think I got better.
-You know, listening to Terry Gross sounded boring.
But just to make it fair, you should have heard it like this.
"Chris Hayes is..."
[ Laughter ]
"...listening to Terry Gross."
-[ Laughter ] -Thank you!
Right? Better. -There you go.
-Better. -[ Applause ]
-You know, you tease yourself for being very online
and living an online life. It should be noted,
another thing that's remarkable,
you and I are very much inside that Twitter bubble.
We think it's the most important social-media network
in the world, and it is decisively not.
-No, definitely not.
And it's never, you know, delivered a ton of growth.
It's never been particularly far-reaching.
It has always been a bit of a bubble.
And again, I also wonder how much this -- you know, again,
going back to that point about you can't extrapolate out some
trend and -- because there's disruption and there's changes.
I don't know if this era we've lived in basically, I think
since the introduction of the iPhone in 2007,
which is the kind of fully smartphone, web 2.0,
social-media universe that we've lived in now for 15 years.
I don't know if we're at the precipice of something new.
You know? It feels to me like there's shifts happening.
I don't know where it goes next, but I also feel -- There's a
little bit of an end of an epoch feeling to me right now.
-You also do a good job -- If the the epoch ends and it's more
outdoorsy, you're also a very outdoorsy fella.
-I know. -You clear some brush.
-The silence in the crowd is the surprise registering.
-[ Laughter ] -But you did something.
You posted this photo of you and your wife on your anniversary.
And this is last July. -This is our 15th anniversary.
-Your 15th anniversary. And where did you take her?
-The garbage dump. -The garbage dump.
[ Laughter ]
And I will say the fact that --
I mean, I do think that's a good test.
At 15 years, if you can make out in front of a pile of garbage --
[ Laughter ]
-And in my -- I just want to be clear here.
This was not unilateral.
This was a -- We were both psyched.
-Okay, that's nice. -Together to go --
Kate's parents were in town.
They nicely spelled us for a little bit.
We had a lot of garbage piling up.
We headed down to the dump. We were like, "Let's together,
after 15 years, cross this item off our to-do list."
-That's really sweet. -Together.
I think that is -- That's the foundation of love.
-Chris Hayes is finding true love.
-Yes, under a garbage dump. -Under a garbage dump.
Hey, thanks for being here. -Thank you, man.
-We're looking forward to following you tonight.
You guys, that's Chris Hayes.
"All In with Chris Hayes," weeknights at 8:00 on MSNBC.
Tune in for the network's
continuing coverage of the Georgia election.
We'll be right back with Charlotte Nicdao.