YEAR.
MARIA: TOP STORY THIS HOUR, THE
HEATED HEALTHCARE DEBATE.
ILHAN OMAR THE LATEST LAWMAKER
TO SUPPORT MEDICARE FOR ALL.
SHE TOUTED THE PLAN AT TOWN HALL
MEETING LAST NIGHT.
WATCH.
>> ONE IN FOUR AMERICANS CANNOT
AFFORD OR ACCESS HEALTHCARE THEY
NEED, BECAUSE OF THE PROHIBITIVE
COSTS.
THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE.
IT IS A MORAL IMPERATIVE THAT WE
FIX IT AND MEDICARE FOR ALL WILL
DO THAT.
MARIA: JOINING ME RIGHT NOW IN
A FIRST ON FOX INTERVIEW IS
PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS, THE
ARCHITECT OF OBAMACARE AND A
FORMER TREASURY DEPARTMENT DEP
SIGH
DEGH
DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY,
JONATHAN GRUBER.
YOUR REACTION TO WHAT YOU JUST
HEARD FROM OMAR, IT'S OF
PROHIBITIVE FOR MOST PEOPLE IN
TERMS OF THE COST OF HEALTHCARE.
>> HEALTH INSURANCE IS REALLY
EXPENSIVE FOR MANY AMERICANS AND
UNAFFORDABLE FOR MANY AMERICANS
AND IT'S A PROBLEM WE NEED TO
SO.
WE NEED TO SOLVE IT IN A WAY
THAT RECOGNIZES THAT WE CAN'T
ALLOW INSURANCE COMPANIES TO
DISCRIMINATE AGAINST THE SICK.
THAT'S THE FUNDAMENTAL GOAL THAT
MOST AMERICANS AGREE ON.
IT SOMETIMES GOES BY THE NAME
PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS.
THE BOTTOM LINE IS, THE MAIN
ACCOMPLISHMENT OF THE AFFORDABLE
CARE ACT WAS BANNING INSURANCE
MARKET DISCRIMINATION AGAINST
THE SICK.
WE NEED TO MAINTAIN THAT, WHILE
EXPANDING AFFORDABILITY.
MARIA: MANY MARKETS SAW PRICES
AND PREMIUMS GO UP AFTER
OBAMACARE WAS IN PLACE BY DOUBLE
DIGITS.
>> IN THE FIRST THREE YEARS
AFTER OBAMACARE, BEFORE
PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS ELECTED,
PREMIUMS WENT UP ON AVERAGE 7% A
YEAR.
THEY WENT UP ZERO THE FIRST TWO
YEARS, THEN 22% THE THIRD YEAR.
MARIA: IN SOME MARKETS, YOU
LOOK AT ARIZONA, IT WAS UP 25%
OR SOMETHING.
YOU'RE GIVING ME AN AVERAGE.
THERE ARE SOME STATES THAT SAW
PROHIBITIVE, VERY EXPENSIVE
PREMIUM INCREASES.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
ANY PRICE VARIES, MARIA.
THE KEY THING TO FOCUS ON IS THE
AVERAGE.
THE AVERAGE WAS THAT THE COST
GROWTH WAS MUCH SLOWER, HALF OF
WHAT IT WAS BEFORE.
PRESIDENT TRUMP UNFORTUNATELY
AND THE REPUBLICANS BY DOING
THINGS LIKE TAKING AWAY THE
INDIVIDUAL MANDATE AND CREATING
UNCERTAINTY, INSURANCE PREMIUMS
WENT UP A LOT.
MARIA: YOU CAN'T BLAME THE
TRUMP ADMINISTRATION FOR
PREMIUMS GOING UP.
THEY WENT UP UNDER OBAMACARE.
UNDER OBAMA'S PLAN THEY WENT UP.
>> PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS ELECTED.
THEY WENT UP 7% PER YEAR ON
AVERAGE.
THERE'S TWO TRUTHS IN THE WORLD,
MARIA, HEALTHCARE COSTS GO UP --
MARIA: THEY WERE CONTINUING
WITH OBAMACARE AND THE PREMIUMS
WENT UP.
I DON'T WANT TO ARGUE ABOUT WHAT
OBAMACARE WAS.
I WANT TO ASK ABOUT MEDICARE FOR
ALL.
WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT OMAR'S
ANSWER?
SHE SAYS THE ONLY WAY THIS IS
GOING TO GET CURED IS MEDICARE
FOR ALL.
>> I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT
ANSWER.
I THINK THAT WHAT IS ABSOLUTELY
TRUE IS THAT THE PRIVATE MARKET
ALONE IS NOT SERVING THE
INTEREST OF MANY AMERICANS AND
WE NEED MORE EXPANDED GOVERNMENT
INVOLVEMENT.
THAT CAN TAKE MANY FORMS.
ONE FORM WOULD BE TO BUILD ON
WHAT THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT
ACCOMPLISHED AS JOE BIDEN
RECENTLY SUGGESTED, BY MAKING
PREMIUMS MORE AFFORDABLE, BY
OFFERING A PUBLIC OPTION TO
INDIVIDUALS, NOT A MANDATE, NOT
FORCES PEOPLE TO GO INTO
GOVERNMENT INSURANCE BUT
OFFERING PUBLIC OPTIONS, LIKE
TOWNS HAVE PUBLIC PARKS.
IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD A BACKYARD,
YOU HAVE A PUBLIC PARK TO GO TO.
THE SAME SHOULD BE TRUE FOR
HEALTH INSURANCE MEDICARE FOR
ALL, YOU'RE DOING AWAY WITH THE
ENTIRE PRIVATE INSURANCE
INDUSTRY.
180 MILLION PEOPLE GET INSURANCE
FROM THE PRIVATE SECTOR.
DOING AWAY WITH THAT IS CREATING
MEDICARE FOR NOBODY.
>> WELL, BASICALLY THAT'S NOT
TRUE.
YOU ARE CREATING MEDICARE FOR
ALL.
I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOUR
MAIN POINT, MARIA --
MARIA: YOU'RE NOT CREATING
MEDICARE FOR ALL.
IT WILL DO AWAY WITH PEOPLE'S
PRIVATE INSURANCE, 180 MILLION
PEOPLE.
>> IT WILL PUT THEM IN MEDICARE.
I AGREE WITH YOUR MAIN POINT.
I THINK IT'S VERY DIFFICULT, YOU
LOOK AT THE OPPOSITION UNDER
OBAMACARE, THE FACT THAT A VERY
SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE HAD TO
GIVE UP REALLY CRAPPY HEALTH
INSURANCE AND THEY GOT VERY
UPSET.
YOU TAKE THAT ANALOGY, ASK
180 MILLION PEOPLE TO GIVE UP
GOOD HEALTH INSURANCE, THEY'RE
NOT GOING TO BE HAPPY ABOUT IT.
I THINK WE NEED TO SEPARATE TWO
POINTS HERE.
ONE POINT IS THAT WE NEED MORE
GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT TO ENSURE
THAT THE HEALTH INSURANCE, THE
BROKEN HEALTH INSURANCE MARKET
PROVIDES CARE FOR EVERYONE.
THAT DOESN'T MEAN MEDICARE FOR
ALL, NECESSARILY.
BUT IT DOES MEAN MORE STEPS
FORWARD.
MARIA: I TAKE ISSUE WITH THE
WHOLE IDEA OF HAVING A FEDERAL
PROGRAM DOING HEALTHCARE FOR
EVERYBODY.
I MEAN, WHY WOULD I WANT SOME
BARR CRATE
BURR CRATE
BURE CRATE
BUREAURATE
BUREAUCRTE
BUREAUCRAT MAKING DECISIONS ON
MY HEALTHCARE, IF I'M ABLE TO
GET THAT MRI TEST, IF I'M ABLE
TO GET THE MEDICINES I WANT,
MAYBE IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE A
ACCORDING TO THE GOVERNMENT.
THAT'S THE WHOLE ISSUE, HAVING
THE GOVERNMENT OWN THAT PIECE OF
MY LIFE.
>> WELL, MARIA, THE GOVERNMENT
WOULD NOT OWN THAT PIECE OF YOUR
LIFE IF YOU DIDN'T WANT THAT.
PEOPLE ON MEDICARE, THE
GOVERNMENT OWNS THAT PIECE OF
THEIR LIFE.
THEY SEEM PRETTY HAPPY WITH IT.
THAT'S WHY MEDICARE FOR ALL HAS
CAUGHT ON.
I DON'T SUPPORT THAT FOR
EVERYONE.
I THINK IF YOU AND I WANT A
DIFFERENT HEALTH INSURANCE PLAN,
THAT MAKES DIFFERENT CHOICES
THAN MEDICARE, WE SHOULD HAVE
THAT OPTION.
YOU AND I CAN AFFORD THAT
OPTION.
THE PEOPLE IN FLORIDA AND TEXAS
WHO ARE BELOW THE POVERTY LINE
AND THE GOVERNORS HAVE COMMITTED
MEDICAL
MADICAL
MALPCAL
MALPRAL
MALPRACTICE OF DENYING HEALTH
INSURANCE, THEY DON'T HAVE THAT
OPTION.
IT'S EITHER TAKE THE GOVERNMENT
PLAN OR BE UNINSURED.
MARIA: CAN YOU HAVE A PROGRAM
WHERE YOU KEEP THE PRIVATE
INDUSTRY IN PLACE, 180 MILLION
PEOPLE CONTINUE TO GET THEIR
HEALTHCARE THE WAY THEY WANT TO
GET IT, FOR OTHERS YOU CAN DO
SOME KIND OF PROGRAM FOR THOSE
WITHOUT MESSING WITH THE LARGE
GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO ARE GETTING
THEIR HEALTHCARE FROM PRIVATE?
>> AS WE KNOW, ANY TIME YOU DO A
MASSIVE PUBLIC CHANGE, THERE
WILL BE SOME IMPACT ON THE
PRIVATE MARKET.
BUT IT WILL BE MINOR.
SO IF YOU LOOK AT OBAMACARE,
THAT WAS A HUGE CHANGE AND YET
EMPLOYER SPONSORED INSURANCE
CONTINUED TO GROW.
SOME PEOPLE DID HAVE TO CHANGE
THEIR PLANS.
WE'LL ADMIT THAT.
IT WAS A VERY, VERY SMALL
NUMBER.
TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, MARIA,
FOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE
AND OVERALL IF YOU PUT IN A NEW
PUBLIC OPTION THEY COULD KEEP
WHAT THEY LIKE.
I THINK IT'S A MISTAKE TO
PROMISE THAT LITERALLY NO ONE
WILL BE AFFECTED BUT THAT'S NOT
THE RELEVANT QUESTION.
THE RELEVANT QUESTION IS IF YOU
CAN PROVIDE NEW HEALTH INSURANCE
FOR 30 MILLION POOR AMERICANS
AND A VERY SMALL NUMBER OF THOSE
WITH HEALTH INSURANCE, FOR
EXAMPLE, HAVE TO CHANGE THE KIND
OF PLAN THEY HAVE, I THINK
THAT'S A PRICE WORTH PAYING.
MARIA: THIS ALL SOUNDS LIKE DAY
HAVE VIEW TO
DAVE VIEW TO
DAYE VIEW TO
DAYHAVIEW TO
DAYHAVEEW TO
DEYHAVEEW TO
DEJAAVEEW TO
DEJAVUEEW TO
DEJAVU.EW TO
MARIA: WATCH THIS.
>> ANYONE WHO HAS THEIR EMPLOYER
BASED HEALTH INSURANCE THEY
LIKE, THEY CAN KEEP IT.
>> IF YOU'VE GOT HEALTH
INSURANCE, YOU LIKE YOUR DOCTOR,
YOU LIKE YOUR PLAN, YOU CAN KEEP
YOUR DOCTOR, YOU CAN KEEP YOUR
PLAN.
MARIA: YEAH, RIGHT.
WE KNOW HOW THAT ENDED UP,
JONATHAN.
DEMOCRATIC HOPEFUL, CALIFORNIA
SENATOR KAMALA HARRIS SPOKE OUT
ASSURING VOTERS THEY CAN KEEP
THEIR DOCTOR UNDER HER PLAN.
THIS IS YOUR FIRST TELEVISION
INTERVIEW REACTING TO THE
DEMOCRATS' HEALTHCARE PLAN.
WHAT'S YOUR REACTION.
>> MY REACTION IS THE STATEMENTS
THEY'RE MAKING IS FOR THE VAST
MAJORITY OF PEOPLE THIS WILL NOT
AFFECT YOU.
FOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE,
THEIR LIVES WERE NOT TOUCHED, BY
THE LAW.
DID THAT MEAN HEALTH INSURANCE
DIDN'T CHANGE?
NO.
I REMEMBER GOING TO THE WHITE
HOUSE AFTER OBAMACARE WAS PASSED
AND HIS ADVISORS SAID WE OWN THE
HEALTHCARE MARKET NOW AND EVEN
THE CHANGES, PEOPLE WILL BLAME
US FOR.
THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED.
MOST PEOPLE'S HEALTH INSURANCE
CHANGED.
IT WASN'T BECAUSE OF OBAMACARE.
IT WAS BECAUSE HEALTH INSURANCE
CHANGES.
MARIA: IT WAS BECAUSE OF
OBAMACARE.
IT WAS WAY TOO EXPENSIVE.
WHAT IT DID TO BUSINESSES, IT'S
WORTH NOTING, IT INCREASED THE
BUSINESS' COST AND THEN THEY
WERE FACING THESE HIGHER
EXPENSES SO THEY PULLED BACK ON
MONEY HE'LL WHERE.
SO FOR -- ELSEWHERE.
FOR SMALL BUSINESSES IN
PARTICULAR, THEY COMPLAINED UP
AND DOWN THE STREET ABOUT HOW
EXPENSIVE OBAMACARE WAS,
JONATHAN.
>> IT MAY HAVE -- YOU MAY HAVE
HEARD COMPLAINTS.
MARIA: A LOT.
>> WE HAD THIS CONVERSATION
BEFORE.
I URGE YOU TO LOOK AT THE DATA.
MARIA: I LOOKED AT THE DATA.
>> SINCE OBAMACARE WAS PASSED,
THE PREMIUMS EMPLOYERS PAY FOR
HEALTH INSURANCE HAVE GROWN AT
THE SLOWEST RATE IN MEASURED
HISTORY.
THAT'S WHAT THE DATA SHOWS.
THAT DOESN'T MEAN SOME EMPLOYERS
DIDN'T PAY MORE.
BEFORE OBAMACARE SOME EMPLOYERS
PAID MORE.
IN THE 10 YEARS BEFORE
OBAMACARE, IN THE 10 YEARS
BEFORE, 10% OF AMERICANS LOST
THEIR EMPLOYER SPONSORED HEALTH
INSURANCE.
WAS THAT OBAMACARE'S FAULT?
NO.
THINGS CHANGE.
COSTS GO UP.
THERE'S TWO TRUTHS IN AMERICA.
HEALTHCARE COSTS GO UP AND
BASEBALL GAMES TAKE TOO LONG.
HEALTH INSURANCE COSTS WERE
GOING UP BEFORE AND AFTER
OBAMACARE.
THEY WENT UP SLOWER AFTER
OBAMACARE THAN THEY DID BEFORE.
MARIA: WE'LL LEAVE IT THERE,
JONATHAN.
THANKS SO MUCH.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING