Announcer: Welcome back to The David Pakman Show.
David: Welcome back to the show, David Pakman here. Several new members that I want to say
hello to, Louis, Members of the Week of the David Pakman Show family. Stephan Brooks as
well as Jonathan Lanke, Members of the Week.
Louis: Is it Lank or Lankey?
David: I think it's Lankey, is my sense. If I'm mispronouncing that, please let me know,
Jonathan. But you know, now that they are essentially part of the family, I want to
make sure to have everybody's names right.
Also, tonight, if today is Thursday, if you're listening to the show today, we will be having
a progressive talk radio meetup at Netroots Nation in Minneapolis, David Pakman Show,
Best of the Left Podcast, the Thom Hartmann program, Thom will be there, and Sam Seder's
Majority Report, Sam Seder will also be there. 9:00 pm, it's at The News Room, 990 Nicollet
Mall, Minneapolis, Minnesota. Many of our members and listeners have emailed me saying
they will be there. It's just, you know, just show up. We've got a Facebook event you can
RSVP to, but by the time you hear this, it's probably going to be pretty close to meetup
time, isn't it, Louis?
Louis: Oh, yeah.
David: So hope to see a lot of our friends and listeners there.
Louis: I actually have some family in Minneapolis.
David: Is that right?
Louis: Yeah.
David: Other Motamedis?
Louis: No, not Motamedis.
David: OK. All right, well, we'll keep the last name private, then, just for, you know,
discretion.
Louis: No doubt.
David: This week's Morality with Motamedi, last week the question was would you sell
your house for twice its market value if you knew that it was going to be that an animal
testing facility, a company that was going to do animal testing, would be put in place
there? Louis said he would for twice the market value. Louis getting killed in the email,
I mean, people very, very angry. What do you respond with, Louis?
Louis: I just have this sneaking suspicion that it's easy for people to say they wouldn't
do it until they are put in that situation.
David: Oh, so you think people are just BSing and if it was them, they would do it?
Louis: Most people, yeah.
David: Wow. A big indictment of people actually caring for animals from producer Louis Motamedi.
Well, this week it's the overcrowded lifeboat scenario. You know this one, Louis.
Louis: More people caring more about themselves than animals.
David: You're stranded with 30 people on a lifeboat, it's intended to hold only seven
people. Nobody can paddle the boat because it's way too heavy. It will definitely sink
with the 30 people, everyone inside will drown, OK? It occurs to you you could save some of
the people if you threw out all but the strongest rowers, OK? You throw them overboard. Would
it be morally permissible to save some people by throwing others overboard, especially since
if you don't throw anyone overboard, everyone dies?
And again, you have... you can't say something like I would call someone with my cell phone
and have them rescue us. Let's just analyze it the way that I'm presenting it. Everyone
dies, or you throw some people overboard. If you keep the strongest rowers, people can
survive. Is it morally permissible? And by the way, who decides who to throw overboard?
Do you decide?
Louis: I decide.
David: Maybe you would be thrown overboard. But seriously, what do you think of this one?
Louis: Well, I mean, you're asking me what I would do if I were the decider. If I were
George Bush, I were the Decider, right?
David: Right, yeah, exactly.
Louis: OK. To be honest...
George W. Bush: But I'm the Decider, and I...
David: Yeah, so go on.
Louis: [Laughs] I think I would have to... I think I would have to toss some people over.
David: You-- and it would be morally permissible? In other words, later, if you were asked about
it, you would be able to say listen, we were all going to die, I made the decision some
people have to go, and some of us survived.
Louis: Right. I think it would also be pretty likely that someone would go berserk and start
pushing people overboard anyway, so I would have to... I would have to decide who is going
over.
David: And what rationale would you use?
Louis: Well, I'm sure some of our listeners are not going to like this, but I think the
younger you are, the better chance you'd have of not getting thrown over.
David: What about kids, though? Because kids will not be able to row very well, but presumably
they have the most years left to live.
Louis: And they also don't weigh as much, so I think kids would probably be pretty safe.
David: So it seems really like overweight, weak people that are older are going to be
the first to be pushed off by Louis.
Louis: Yeah.
David: What do you think, Natan? Morally permissible? I mean, how do you navigate a situation like
this?
Natan Pakman: Well, first of all, I'll say in this context, are we saying that this is...
these people are the only people left on Earth? Because...
David: No.
Natan: That's not the case.
David: That's not the case.
Natan: Because if that were the case, then it certainly wouldn't be sufficient to throw
away all of the women and children, is what I'm saying.
David: No, no, no, no. We're not saying that. I'm saying this is just Earth exists, people
exist, there's just the only chance for these people is to lighten the load of the boat
and row back.
Natan: OK. Well, my question to you is how is it morally permissible not to do anything?
David: In other words, by doing nothing, you are basically allowing 30 people to die.
Louis: Everyone to die, including yourself.
David: Whereas by doing something, you could be saving, potentially, I don't know, 20 people,
if you throw off the right people.
Louis: Yeah.
David: The other thing is would people have to be thrown off? Would anybody volunteer
and just say you know what? I'm a completely rational person, I'm overweight.
Louis: Of course. That's...
David: I'm weighing the boat down, I'm offing myself, I'm jumping off the boat.
Natan: Highly unlikely.
Louis: Highly unlikely, but that's the first thing I would say. I would say are there any
volunteers?
[Laughter]
And then I would have to make some speech about morals and duty and life, and then I'd
start giving people the boot.
Natan: Yeah, now...
["Pomp and Circumstance March No. 1 in D" plays]
David: Ladies and gentlemen, we're on this boat today for circumstances that unfortunately
are not of our choosing. But let me be the first to say that if we are to survive as
a people, if we are to survive as a nation, some of us will have to go. And I ask you
today, will anyone volunteer for this great cause? Will anyone stand up today and say
I, I, who have not taken care of myself, who have overindulged in the Big Macs and Whoppers
and fries, and who have had some of producer Louis's incredibly horrible cooking, I will
volunteer to jump off, and I will not need you to push me, because I will push myself
for the greater good?
I mean, is that the type of thing you would hope happens?
Louis: Yes. That's exactly how I envisioned it.
David: I think it's unlikely.
Louis: With the music and everything.
Natan: Now, wait, if you're thrown overboard...
Louis: Because there's also a full orchestra on this boat, somehow.
Natan: If you're thrown overboard in this scenario, is it a certain death or is it just
very unlikely?
David: Yeah. It's certain death. It's certain death.
Louis: It's certain death.
David: Yeah.
Natan: So it's like the water is pure...
Louis: There's big sharks and freezing water...
David: Hold on, we've got to talk... people... you guys get so wound up. One at a time. It's
certain death.
Natan: OK. OK, well, definitely kids and fat people go first.
David: Kids too?
Natan: Well, when you think about it, the kids are going to contribute very little to
rowing the boat.
Louis: But they don't weigh much. I wouldn't toss kids.
Natan: I think kids aren't first... a first choice. First choice are weak people, elderly,
and fat people. So basically...
David: This is incredibly politically incorrect.
Natan: Yeah, it's politically incorrect, but it's rational.
David: Right.
Louis: And the best part is no one can see Natan's face, so he's in virtual anonymity
here.
David: All right. Well, you know, I don't know, I think...
Natan: That's the best part.
David: The argument... the best argument I've heard so far for pushing people overboard
is by doing nothing, you are basically complicit in just allowing all 30 people to die.
On today's bonus show, we'll be talking about Chicago's expanded Big Brother camera network,
physicians are leaving private practices, controversial ruling about suicide kits in
Oregon. If you sign up to become a David Pakman Show member and get that bonus show, you get
10 entries in this iPad giveaway that I'm holding here in front of me. We'll be doing
that on the last day of June.
Let's take a break, we'll come back, a lot more to talk about, and www.DavidPakman.com/membership
is the website. Hope to see a lot of you tonight at the progressive talk radio meetup in Minneapolis.
Announcer: The David Pakman Show at www.DavidPakman.com.
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captions, and subtitles, or for more information, visit www.Subscriptorium.com, or contact Alex
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