Judy: Waves of sadness and
remembrances of queen Elizabeth
are part of conversations
everywhere, as Americans and the
rest of the world come to grips
with her death.
Separately, results from a "Pbs
newshour"/npr/marist poll are
painting a fresh picture of
where the American electorate
stands just two months ahead of
the general election.
For analysis of these and other
developments this week, we turn
to Capehart and Gerson.
That's "Washington post"
associate editor Jonathan
Capehart, and his "Post"
colleague, opinion columnist
Michael Gerson.
David brooks is away.
Hello to both of you.
On this Friday night.
Let's start by talking about the
woman, no one else like her that
we know of, on the throne for 70
years at a time when not just
great written -- great Britain
but the world is going through
tremendous change.
What do you think she stood for?
Jonathan: In my mind she stood
for stability, and what she
achieved for her people was
someone who was never changing
or slow to change.
People I bet today who don't
like the monarchy, probably did
not like her, with her passing,
are probably thinking about what
she meant to them in terms of
how they feel about their
country and where it is going.
I love the fact that we watched
this monarch, who became queen
as a young woman, and watched
her change, evolve, age.
In that time, we saw that the
queen has a dysfunctional family
, she has to deal with all sorts
of things that regular families
have to deal with.
It is just that she is a monarch
and we are watching it all in
real time.
I think the crown coming out
when it did in her later years
-- the TV series on Netflix,
which I have watched in its
entirety twice --
Michael: I have too, by the way.
[Laughter]
Jonathan: It is fascinating to
watch.
I'm going to stop talking
because there is one person at
this table who has interviewed
[laughter]
Who has interviewed a member of
the royal family.
Judy: He has interviewed king
Charles III.
Michael: They call it the show.
They divided their political
aspirations into two
institutions, one is the
parliamentary institution that
reflects needed change and the
other is the monarchy, that
reflects tradition and slower
change.
In the United States, we try to
combine both of those things in
the present to some extent.
He seeks to play both roles like
George Washington did, for
example.
But there have many people that
failed at that job.
But it worked for the last 70
years because of her.
Their form of government work
properly because of her for the
last 70 years.
Judy: Worked properly and now
we're onto a new regime and we
want to hear from both of you
about what you expect, but
Michael, you were telling us you
spent time talking with him --
what do you expect?
Michael: At high grove.
He is a significantly
underestimated public figure.
When he first started to talk
about organic farming, everybody
thought he was barmy.
He was a pioneer.
When he started talking about
the Amazon rain forest,
preserving it, that has become
one of the main environmental
issues in our world.
When he started talking about
the dehumanization of modern
architecture, particular public
housing, it was a wise and
interesting contribution to the
public discussion.
I am in the camp that I think he
is going to take to that office
quite well.
Judy: What do you think about
him, and Jonathan, what do you
think about the monarchy, and
does it survive?
Jonathan: I'm going to share
something I told Michael I would
not share on air but I will say
it -- way back when I had a
crush on then the prince
Charles, prince of Wales -- I
said it.
[Laughter]
King Charles III is facing
challenges.
He has a commonwealth where a
lot of countries in Africa are
not celebrating the way people
in England are morning -- I
shouldn't say celebrating,
mourning in the same way people
in England are.
A CNN reporter, whose reports
from Nairobi are bracing in this
moment, reminding people there
are people in Africa who think
of the British as imperialists,
as colonizers, and they want
amends and apologies.
Prince William, now the prince
and princess of Wales, they were
in the caribbean in March, and
there were protests along the
way.
Prince I think was also --
prince Edward I think was also
on a trip where there were
protests.
Judy: Our reporter a moment ago,
we heard from Jamaica, saying
the time for kings and queens is
passed.
Jonathan: I think for king
Charles III, the dilemma for him
now is how do you the monarchy
together when countries want to
leave the commonwealth?
Countries want to remove British
monarch as the sovereign of
their country.
They also have to deal with
Australia talking about wanting
to leave, New Zealand, Scotland,
Wales.
The challenge for queen
Elizabeth II was to keep the
monarchy going, the challenge
for him I think is how will he
help it survive?
Judy: How do you think it will
be different?
Michael: I think it is different
in America in a certain way.
Those objections to imperialism
are quite real and important.
But when we look at our history,
we got our sense of national
destiny from the puritans, ok?
We had the first great awakening
and evangelical movement
Westfield.
We got our approach of
Republican governance from the
reddish --British whigs.
We have a tie to Britain not
just because their family has a
soap opera.
This is a deep tie of the leaf
and background that is different
-- of beef and background that
is different from any countries.
Judy: We are talking about two
very different democracies and
at a time when democracies have
been under attack around the
world.
This is a democracy that yes,
has changed, but the vote is
still there.
Jonathan: The vote is still
there.
We've seen a peaceful transfer
of power from one monarch to
another, whereas the cousins
over here, we are still
grappling with an attempted coup
that could happen again.
Judy: Speaking of the vote, we
want to share some of the
numbers from our poll we did
this week with NPR and marist,
where among other things, we
asked people what issues matter
to them the most.
It has been inflation,
inflation, inflation, but we are
now seeing, especially among
Democrats, more than a third are
saying abortion.
The issue of abortion is driving
them to have a greater interest
in this election.
What does that tell you?
Michael: It doesn't tell me as
much about the issue of
abortion, which is been divisive
for a long time.
It tells me a lot about the
perception of radicalism of the
Republican party.
This is the case where rather
than dealing in the aftermath of
the Dobbs in a responsible way
with these issues, Republicans
looked like it wanted to
undermine the health of a
10-year-old could or --
10-year-old.
Or the attorney general of Texas
said he would enforce sodomy
laws if the supreme court moves
on those.
Those are deeply radical notions
Republicans have been led to.
I think Democrats have been more
effective not on changing minds
on abortion, but in saying you
can't trust Republicans with
issues like abortion because
they are not fit for it.
Judy: What do these numbers tell
you?
Jonathan: I agree with Michael.
You can look at where people are
in terms of inflation,
immigration, crime, abortion,
and I take your point that what
we see in these numbers, it
maybe isn't about people saying
we support abortion, but it is
about the radicalism of
Republicans, or as I look at it,
the attack on freedom.
If you are going to attack a
woman's right to bodily
autonomy, another supreme court
justice in a concurring opinion
says we are going to attack the
right of same-sex couples to
engage in intimacy, to get
married, we are going to attack
the right of people to have
access to contraception.
I think because of that
radicalism and attack on
freedom, we see in that poll,
six out of 10 Americans said the
supreme court's decision to
overturn roe makes them more
likely to vote this fall.
That was a huge number that
jumped out at me and that fits
in with what we've seen in other
polls that women are registering
-- they are outpacing men in
several states.
In Ohio, Pennsylvania,
Wisconsin.
11 percentage point jump in
Ohio, 12 in Pennsylvania, 15 in
Wisconsin, six in Georgia, seven
in North Carolina.
Michael: A battleground group
and a lot of this.
Judy: I don't know if we have
time to show this graphic,
control of congress, Democrats
holding their own, 48 Democrats
and 44 Republicans, but want to
ask you, when people are asked,
voters are asked should Donald
Trump run again in 2024, 67% of
Republicans said yes.
When Republicans were asked,
what if he is charged with a
crime, almost that many still
think he should run, 61%.
Michael: I still want to be
shocked by that.
This is a case where Donald
Trump has become more radical
since he left office in many
ways.
We have seen from the hearings,
there is plenty of evidence he
has done illegal things or may
have done illegal things.
This is proof that the base of
the Republican party is not
going to be changed by external
factors.
The big question that more
moderate Republicans have is are
there 3% to 5% Republicans on
the margin who will say this guy
has too much Bagge -- baggage?
That's the people I talk to, the
think that could be the decider.
A small amount of disaffected
Republicans who liked what he
did but find him to have a lot
of baggage.
Judy: How does that weigh on the
other party.
Jonathan: I think the other
party should realize whether or
not Donald Trump runs for
president, whether or not he is
the nominee and faces president
Biden in 2024, it doesn't matter
whether trump is on the ballot,
trump is abroad in the land.
Those policies will be espoused
by Desantis or Abbott or whoever
else is the Republican nominee.
I don't think we should be
focusing on Donald Trump, we
should be focusing on the
Republican party.
Judy: Quick coda?
Michael: I agree, that is the
threat and it will not go away
if he goes away, but he should
go away because of the distinct
threat he presents to American
democracy.
Judy: Entirely too much
agreement here tonight.
[Laughter]
It is perfectly all right.
Thank you both.