- [Attendee] On that same note a follow up question.
So, how do you personally balance when to actually
let someone go?
When the cost-benefit analysis is too great.
Maybe in your case, the guy had so much value.
- The cost to replace him would have been way too high.
- [Attendee] Got it.
But if he didn't have a great value
then you would just release.
- So your question is when do you--
- [Attendee] What's the fine line to letting them
stay on the team and isolate them?
- The answer is yesterday.
It's always yesterday.
The time to let someone go is earlier.
I've never been in a situation
where I have asked that question, be like,
"I think it might be time to let this one go."
And not have should have done it weeks ago.
Sifu, I'd be interested if you...
You've interacted, I can imagine thousands of people
within this.
I'm interested to hear your perspective,
if you're on that same side with it.
- [Dan] I totally agree.
Usually what happens is the people
who they should've let them go.
They know already.
- You're torturing them.
- They know.
Either they know they're getting away with it.
Or they are just hiding like not saying anything.
But they either know it's a matter of time.
And when you bring that up, usually it's like
oh, finally.
It's that kind of thing, right.
Even before the pre-CIB,
I told the leader, a couple of leaders got fired.
I said don't even come.
I don't want them here.
I should have done that months ago.
I'm just busy with so many things.
But when I saw a number of things, I'm like
that person shouldn't be here.
The same idea.
It's just what I've learned even in the last four months,
how much destruction, how toxic one person can be.
Just one.
And you guys know.
If I was to ask you one-on-one, you would know
that the asshole shouldn't be here.
You know that.
But sometimes you may be afraid of talk to me about it.
It's okay, tell me about it.
I'll cut that person's head off.
(audience laughs)
It's okay.
You know it, we all know it, they shouldn't be here.
- And the challenge I have.
My job was to save lives.
And sacrifice mine in order to do it.
Or at least be okay with that.
So I have a horrible time with this
because I wanna save everyone.
And if I get to suffer in the process
of saving you (animated noise), it's the best thing
in my life.
Like that's my personality challenge.
And so, I agree with Sifu and the fact that
you're torturing the poor soul.
'Cause if they know their...
They know if they've got connection or not.
They're not disconnected.
Imagine going into an environment
where you feel inauthentic, you can't be vulnerable
and you don't trust anyone.
And if you're like, "I don't know, I don't have
any worth around here.
I don't represent any value."
That would be miserable.
And that's why I've started to say wait a minute.
I'm actually hurting the person I'm trying to take care of
by keeping them around.
And so--
- And they, maybe they even within
Team Dan Lok, last 30 days we fired three people.
That have been with me for some time.
Three people.
One, three years.
I tell them the same thing, it's
within our team
with the growth, within a team there maybe a three or four.
But outside the team there could be a 10.
It's not that bad, it's just within this environment
they are stressed out.
What is required is outside their capabilities.
It's like you wouldn't send one of your team members
to a dangerous mission knowing that they're going to fail.
It doesn't make sense; it puts the whole team in danger.
So that's what happens.
It's not always an easy decision.
But as a leader I have to make that decision.
It's not popular, right?
When I fired my COO, it's not popular, trust me.
- And it causes, it causes...
Any change is gonna cause conflict because as a cave person,
we're...
Resources were limited.
That's the big difference from modern society to here.
As a cave person resources were limited,
that meant any change
takes more resources: mental resources, physical resources.
So we are conditioned to be lazy and not like change.
So we want to conserve resources and so that's why
we'll often times keep someone around
because it's just like, aw, that change
there's gonna be some conflict to it.
We're gonna have to take resources to build it.
So the concept of (mumbles) within,
that's why I like to give out options.
Some people are critical a lot, they can be isolated.
Create the environment where they get to work
and stay here, while the organization goes up.
That's fine.
As long as were clear on it and, or get rid of it.
The answer I want you to remember is yesterday.
If I pose a question to myself: do I need to get rid
of this person?
The answer is always yes, yesterday.
Before I've done that, I've gone through
is it a behavior issue, is it a capability issue.
It's a capability issue: what's the cost for me
to increase their capability?
Is it worth it?
Yes or no.
No, get rid of 'em.
- [Dan] Larry can you share the quote one more time.
I think it's a very profound quote.
What you just shared, the perception.
- Perception?
- [Dan] Yeah, every decision that you make.
- Especially in this perspective, so think about it,
not from your perspective but from a perspective of someone
that is very, very, being ineffective.
Every choice they make there's one caveat.
Do they have intent to harm?
So, I ask that first.
Does this person have intent to harm me or the organization?
Yes or no.
If it's yes, then I visit them in the middle of the night,
and we talk.
(audience laughs)
- [Dan] Take them out.
- No we talk, we talk.
So, do they have intent?
Sometimes, I mean, you run across people that have intent
to cause you harm.
Okay, that's easy.
They don't have intent.
If they don't have intent, so this person's
making ineffective choices.
Every choice they make
in their minds, conscious or subconscious, is perfect.
Is the exact choice, the best choice they can make.
They can make the best choice
and still have it be ineffective.
And so, when you go from that perspective,
all of a sudden, for me, it completely drains
any emotional charge I have.
Which as a manager, I don't wanna go into this
with emotional charge like, "This fucker, why do they
"keep doing this to me?"
No, they aren't.
They're trying their damnedest to do good.
They either don't know how or they can't.
Because of the behavior.
And so that's the questions.
Again my engineering brain goes through flow charts.
Is there intent to harm, yes or no?
Yes, visit them tomorrow night.
No, no there is no intent to harm.
Is this a capability issue?
Or, a personality issue, a way of being, a behavior issue?
It's a capability issue.
What skill do they need they don't have?
Cost-benefit.
It's a behavior issue.
What way of being is causing them trouble?
Is it ego, is it fear, is it lack of self-worth?
You can go into all these behavior things.
Which one is it?
Cost-benefit to change it.
Yes, put in the effort.
No, fire 'em yesterday.
- And the perception is you can say it's perception
or it could be the mindset.
It could be the mindset.
Sometimes what Sifu realizes is
when you upgrade the mindset, you get a perception,
which I'm gonna talk about at actually day two at CIB,
that they feel like, oh now, I've got a new,
I wear the cape.
I have a new perception.
What they don't know is,
there's still other stuff in front of it.
But they don't see it.
They think, I got it, right?
I don't have issues anymore.
It's like when you have problems seeing,
like how come I can't read.
Let me wear my glasses.
I think it's better, but you don't know
what is the perfect eyesight.
It's just better.
But it's not the perfect eyesight.
And what I notice sometimes you could change it.
Sometimes you can't.
Sometimes it's deep-rooted issues.
- So, you can always change it.
There's a cost.
- [Dan] But do they want to change it?
- I can get you to do anything you want.
I'll threaten your life.
(laughter)
And on top of that I can get you to do things
that you never thought were possible.
So the point is, that's why I always go to cost-benefit.
Cost-benefit: is it worth it.
There's a big chunk of time where it just isn't.