We're going to move on to talk to the NSW Health Minister Brad Hazzard, and to take us there
here's the Australian Medical Association President on what needs to happen in Sydney.
Sydney needs to be in this as one. So we're talking about the 5 kilometre rule applying to
all of Sydney. Masks outside applying to all of Sydney. Rules around essential workers applying to
all of Sydney, because a virus is not just in Western Sydney,
it's not just in south west Sydney, we are seeing cases right now across the city.
Brad Hazzard, thanks very much for joining us this morning.
Pleasure, David. Pleasure. Look, there are more cases
popping up across the city. If everyone is, indeed, all in this together,
why don't you apply a consistent approach to the rules on masks and movements right across Sydney?
Look, I think the difficulty is that everybody has got a view on this. What we do know is that
when we locked down the Northern Beaches over Christmas/New Year, there was a high level of
compliance and it worked. We found a high level of compliance in the eastern suburbs.
We are finding it more challenging, for all the reasons Kathleen was talking about before.
I mean, the community there has an incredible multicultural mix, it's a very vibrant community,
but they do come from countries where they don't - they haven't built up trust in government. So,
what we need to be doing in our view, is to focus on that specific area. And
obviously the president of the AMA, the national AMA, may have different views to
most of his other colleagues too. That's the joys of democracy.
What about your chief health officer, Kerry Chant? Has she suggested blanket rules across Sydney?
No. Dr Chant... We already have requirements that everybody stay at home, David, in Sydney. You can
only leave for essential reasons, and they're pretty common across the country. But certainly
in these eight local government areas, it's very challenging. So, we're trying to strike the
balance, and I think the balance is appropriate. But things like outdoor mask-wearing and so on,
the 5k zone, they don't apply in the eastern suburbs and the Northern Beaches and so on?
But at the same time what we're saying is it's a nuanced response, it's a hard response. By
other standards around the country, both in regard to the broader Sydney area but obviously
much more requirements in those areas where we've seen the challenges. And we'll continue
to respond that way. There's spread in some workplaces,
particularly some freight distribution and so on. In Victoria, they put limits last year on
how many could work at one time, they'd have a roster going so you'd have a quarter of
the workforce at any one time in these freight distribution centres. Would you consider that?
We'd consider anything on the basis of the advice that we get from our health team, our public
health team and the broader health team. But I made the point yesterday that the larger logistics
companies, the larger distribution centres - so, the Woolworths, the Coles, the Aldis, the
major food providers for the whole state - those distribution centres have COVID-safe plans and
they're complying and they're doing an extremely good job. It's the smaller facilities that are
challenging. I think in your introduction you highlighted there was a particular freight
company that had 24 cases that we announced yesterday. There was also a pizza shop that had
eight cases - all staff. And what we're seeing is, in some of the smaller facilities, they don't seem
to comply as well as the bigger facilities. So, we're looking at how we can try and strengthen the
surveillance and the messaging to get those companies to understand you must comply with
the COVID-safe plans. It's not there just for you to play around with, it's for you to comply with.
Let's go back to the start of this outbreak. The premier announced the lockdown on 25 June.
That was when the Bondi cluster had already grown to about 65
cases. When did Dr Chant recommend the lockdown? Oh, I don't have the dates, I'm sorry. Every day
I meet with Dr Chant, and most days I'm in the health headquarters from about 7:00am, 8:00am to
8:00 or 9:00. I don't know the precise date. This is critical. Surely you...
I can tell you this - we respond very quickly to any recommendations that is come from Dr
Chant and her entire public health team. Did she recommend the lockdown before you
actually did it? As in, were there days...? Not that I... I don't think that's true.
You didn't delay? No, there was no delay. On each and
every occasion, we respond to our public health team. But keep in mind, I think what people don't
understand is that the public health team and then there's the health team, who also look at mental
health issues, and then there's the economic team who also look at trying to keep the state's
economy going, particularly for mental health and just generally for the economy and jobs. So,
like every difficult decision, it's a balance. But what I would say to the community is we have seen
some very positive moves in the last few weeks by the community. It's not just government. This
is about the community actually responding and actually getting involved in getting the vaccines.
But the government has to deliver a clear message. And at the start, it's critical when you go into
lockdown. The prime minister has acknowledged the key lesson of the last six weeks is it's better to
go quickly with a lockdown. Do you agree and do you offer any contrition for not going earlier?
What I would say is we have done everything that we were advised to do, and we will continue to do
that. But we are challenged in the south-western suburbs. Kathleen's comments, I think, are spot-on
in terms of the sensitivities. And I know as late as this morning I spoke again to the Victorian
minister, Martin Foley, who's doing an excellent job in Victoria. And they had the same situation
in their northern suburbs and north-western suburbs. It's a very difficult community to
gain the confidence of and to have them respond in the way that we need them to respond.
Well, indeed. But shouldn't the lessons have been learnt from that Victorian experience by
every state? Again, do you offer any sort of apology for not locking down earlier?
What I have said, David, is what I intend to say again.
And that is that we have taken the health advice and we will continue to do that.
And it's all very well to be wise after the event by numerous commentators, as...
Plenty of health experts were saying at the time as well that you should lock down.
David, there are plenty of health experts that the commercial channels and your channel
get advice from. We take our advice from our public health team, who get advice from others,
such as the Doherty Institute, and we'll stick with that, if you don't mind.
Now, you said on Friday - we were just talking about it before - in your words,
we're seeing more families coming in with a family member who's presenting "not alive but dead". That
was pretty alarming to hear. Can you explain what happened there and why this might have happened?
I'd rather not go into the family's personal circumstances. But what I will says
again, Kathleen was quite right. Kathleen and I have talked about these issues when she has
been at the various media conferences. What we're seeing is this particular
refugee family groups are often large families, and often there might only be one or two people
in the family who are income earners. And we're seeing a reluctance for them to come
to health authorities and say, "We have a problem in our household." They worry that
they'll be treated - that the way they might have been treated back home in their own countries.
They've suffered greatly in their own nations, in their own countries. What we are trying to
do is tell them, if you have got any symptoms at all or have been in contact with positive cases,
please come forward to Health. Health is only there to look after you. Of course, that's a very
hard message to get through in some circumstances. And in that particular case, all I'll say is
that there was broad infection in the family and there was no effort to get to health authorities,
as I understand it, until it was too late. The lockdown has been extended another four
weeks there. Is there any modelling to suggest that you will get the number of
cases that are infectious in the community down to zero or near zero in four weeks?
Look, the modelling is only dependent, as we've talked about many times in the last 18 months,
on the inputs. I mean, in February last year, I sat with modellers who told me we would have
25,000 deaths in New South Wales. We managed to not do that. In New South Wales, at the present
time, there's a lot of modelling going on, but it really does depend in the end - as I
said a little earlier - on how the community respond. What we are seeing - and, again,
the same as in Victoria, Martin Foley and I were talking about this again this morning - both of
our states have had difficult times at various stages. First of all, the Victorian community were
responding extremely well to the, well, rather mixed messages, I've gotta say, on vaccines.
That's been a big problem for us. But they have actually gone out and they've been prepared to
have the AstraZeneca and the Pfizer. In New South Wales, five or six weeks ago we were
finding it challenging to get people to have the vaccines. Now we're finding, as a result
of this current circumstance, that a lot more people are now seeking the vaccine.
Well, I'll come to that. But just on the modelling, is there modelling showing
you'll get to zero in four weeks? As I just said to you, David, it's entirely
dependent on the response of the community. Speers: But what does it show at the moment?
I appreciate that, but have you got any modelling that says, "This will be over in four weeks"?
Obviously, Dr Chant is hopeful that that will occur. But, again, David, it depends.
The modelling depends on the input. The input is how many people are going to have the vaccine,
how many people are going to stay at home. And that's the unknown.
Yeah, it doesn't sound like it's very concrete. I mean, if in four weeks we're not...
If you find something concrete in the middle of a Delta pandemic, you send me the guidebook.
I appreciate that. Which brings us to the point, if it's not at zero in four weeks,
what happens? Do you keep on with the lockdown or do you lift it?
I'm not going to postulate on that at this stage. We're focused on getting our vaccines up.
And we're trying to get people to stay at home. I think it was observed a little earlier in
an ABC program before yours that we had Eid a week and a half ago. We are worried that there
might have been a lot more people visiting their various family members. We are quite
concerned at the numbers continuing to remain relatively high. They're bouncing
around. What is positive, of course, is that they're not going up in a rapid way,
they're staying around about the same figures. OK. But with the vaccination rate where it's at,
you wouldn't lift restrictions if you've still got a lot of cases in the community, would you?
I think that that's probably a position that would be adopted,
but let's face it - we don't know yet. Let's just go with what we need to do at the moment.
On the vaccinations, then, there's clearly a greater appetite, as you indicated, for people
to get vaccinated. More people are keen to get AstraZeneca as well. The federal government makes
the point there's plenty of AstraZeneca available, you haven't taken up what's available to you. Why
is that? Should New South Wales take up more? That's actually rubbish. And I'll make that
very clear. That's rubbish. I saw that comment come out from apparently a federal government
source - that is complete rubbish. New South Wales has vaccinations at the moment sitting
at about 3.8 million. And I think Victoria is closing in - they're about 3.2 million.
We are triple what WA is. We're double or 1.5 times what Queensland is. But the 1 million
that was put out into the media, I think, yesterday, that was done again 10 days ago,
is just not right. What happens is that the vaccines are there, we can draw them down, but
in New South Wales to achieve what we've achieved, we've made it very clear to our federal colleagues
that the focus for vaccines other than what we are doing in our state hubs has to be to GPs
and has to be to pharmacists. And, in fact, on 12 July, our secretary of Health wrote to
Brendan Murphy and asked that the allocation go to the 1,250 pharmacies across New South Wales.
We want it where people can use it. And we're getting it out through every possible avenue.
So, people won't turn up... I reject that assertion.
Just to be clear, people aren't going turn up at a state-run vaccination centre and
you've run short of AstraZeneca? Oh, God, no. No, no, no. In fact,
can I give you an example? One day week before last, was it last week, we had 9,000
doses given out at one hub, which was at Olympic Park here in Sydney, of the Pfizer.
And 50 of AstraZeneca. So, that's changing, thankfully. The community is now realising that
any vaccine is good for you. And my strong message to the entire Australian community is:
You need to get vaccinated as fast as possible. That's your responsibility. Get vaccinated.
Is the federal government being clear about the supply
available to New South Wales? Both AstraZeneca and Pfizer and Moderna?
Let's just put it this way: We want more, a lot more Pfizer. And we aren't getting that. But
we understand there's AstraZeneca. Everybody understands there's a flood of AstraZeneca.
But the mixed messaging that's come out of ATAGI and the federal government has not been helpful.
It has definitely not been helpful. But having said that, I think the community are waking
up that the one thing we can all do, the one thing we can all do, is have the vaccinations.
Can I also say, just on the federal government situation, I think they did a good job - and I've
seen them being criticised, I think unfairly, for trying to get the vaccines for us. If you'd asked
me last year at this time whether there would be any vaccine at all, my answer would have been,
"There was no coronavirus vaccine ever, so why would we necessarily have any?" So, the federal
government went out in a very twilight zone situation, they made the requests, they entered
the contracts, and they've got the vaccines. But the problem for them is Pfizer is in short supply
around the world. So, we all have to actually... Should they be getting more Pfizer from other
states for New South Wales? Should the federal government do that?
I made that very clear last Saturday week that we live in a commonwealth
and it's a national requirement that the states who have issues should be able to get, I think a
greater amount of the Pfizer. Having said that, I do think it's a strong messaging to the community
that the AstraZeneca is a very good vaccine. I had AstraZeneca. Dr Chant had AstraZeneca. The premier
here had AstraZeneca. We would strongly say, "Go and get it." And it doesn't matter - the ATAGI
advice has changed now, and if you're over 18 you can go and get it, but you should obviously talk
to your medical practitioner or pharmacist. Get the vaccine and we'll get out of this.
The National Cabinet reached in-principle agreement on Friday about the target,
70% and 80%, that need to be hit with vaccination before we can move beyond
the likelihood of lockdowns. Can I just confirm are these now New South Wales targets as well?
The National Cabinet made an agreement on those matters. I don't sit in National Cabinet. But I
would say this - that we have been saying for weeks now - and the premier has repeated it
many times - that we've always thought that we needed to get to around about 80%
before we could expect the freeing up, if you like, of the restrictions. I think it will be
quite a while before the world is completely able to go back to what it was like. There will be,
from time to time, some restrictions. But what I would emphasise, David, is that the 70%/80%
that the National Cabinet have agreed on has to be right across the country. And I did hear one
premier basically saying, "Well, we'll run our own race." It can't be that way. Every state
and every territory must get to those targets in order for that to be an effective outcome from the
National Cabinet, and to keep us all safe. Alright, Brad Hazzard, thanks very much
for joining us. Pleasure, David.