LINES.
IT IS CEMENTING POLITICAL POWER
FOR A DECADE.
JOINING US NOW, KELLI WARD
BURTON, PRESIDENT OF THE
NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC
REDISTRICTING COMMITTEE.
HEY, KELLY.
WHEN IT COMES TO MAP DRAWING,
SOME STATES HAND THAT DUTY OVER
TO INDEPENDENT COMMISSIONS, BUT
IN OTHER STATES, ITS CONTROLLED
BY THE LEGISLATURE, WHICH OF
COURSE, THEN LEADS TO PARTISAN
MAPS.
WHAT DO YOU EXPECT THE PROCESS
TO LOOK LIKE IN REPUBLICAN-LED
STATES IN A YEAR WHERE AS WE
WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT, THEYRE
ALSO PUSHING RESTRICTIVE VOTING
LAWS?
>> ITS A REALLY GOOD QUESTION,
AND THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
ITS REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE
ALL UNDERSTAND REDISTRICTING IN
THE CONTEXT OF THIS FIGHT TO
PROTECT OUR DEMOCRACY.
JUST AS YOU WERE DISCUSSING, THE
SAME FORCES THAT ARE PUSHING
THESE VOTER SUPPRESSION LAWS IN
THE STATES ARE THE SAME FORCES
THAT ARE GOING TO MANIPULATE OUR
DEMOCRACY THROUGH GERRYMANDERING
SO THAT THE OUTCOME OF OUR
ELECTIONS ARE PREDETERMINED
BEFORE THE VOTERS EVEN GET A
CHANCE TO HAVE A SAY AT THE
BALLOT BOX.
AND WE HAVE DONE A VERY GOOD JOB
OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST
DECADE MOVING THE POWER FOR
REDISTRICTING OUT OF THE HANDS
OF REPUBLICAN TRIFECTA CONTROL,
WHICH IS WHERE IT WAS IN 2011,
WHERE REPUBLICANS HAD TOTAL
CONTROL OVER THE PROCESS, TO
SOMETHING ELSE.
AND AS YOU NOTED, THERE IS A LOT
OF STATES NOW THAT RUN THEIR
REDISTRICTING THROUGH
COMMISSIONS OR WITH SOME TYPE OF
REFORM THAT CHECKS THE PEOPLE
DRAWING THE MAPS.
BECAUSE WE HAVE DONE SUCH A GOOD
JOB, THOUGH, MOVING THAT POWER
STRUCTURE, WE REALLY NEED TO
HONE IN ON THE FOUR BIG STATES
THAT ARE STILL CONTROLLED BY THE
REPUBLICANS AND WATCH FOR THEM
TO GERRYMANDER.
THOSE FOUR STATES ARE FLORIDA,
TEXAS, NORTH CAROLINA, AND
GEORGIA, WHICH FOLLOWING THE
CENSUS NUMBERS THIS WEEK, HAVE
94 CONGRESSIONAL SEATS JUST IN
THOSE FOUR STATES.
AND SO WE HAVE TO WATCH
DILIGENTLY, AND WE REALLY NEED
TO THINK ABOUT REDISTRICTING IN
THE CONTEXT OF THE VOTER
SUPPRESSION THAT WERE SEEING IN
THESE STATES RIGHT NOW.
>> LETS TALK ABOUT ONE OF THOSE
STATES.
LETS TALK ABOUT NORTH CAROLINA.
I WANT TO PULL UP THIS MAP.
ITS NORTH CAROLINAS FORMER
12th DISTRICT.
ONCE THE MOST GERRYMANDERED
DISTRICT IN THE U.S.
CAN YOU TALK US THROUGH HOW A
DISTRICT ENDS UP LOOKING LIKE
WHAT YOU ARE SEEING THERE IN THE
BRIGHT GREEN?
>> SURE.
WELL, WHAT REPUBLICANS DO IS
THEY PACK A DEMOCRATIC VOTERS
INTO AS FEW SEATS AS POSSIBLE.
SO THAT THE VOTERS THAT TEND TO
VOTE DEMOCRATIC ARE IN JUST A
HANDFUL OF SEATS.
AND IN NORTH CAROLINA, FOR THE
VAST MAJORITY OF THE DECADE, YOU
HAVE HAD TEN REPUBLICAN SEATS
AND THREE DEMOCRATIC SEATS,
BECAUSE OF THAT PACKING OF
VOTERS, PARTICULARLY VOTERS OF
COLOR, INTO AS FEW SEATS AS
POSSIBLE.
SO THAT THEY ESSENTIALLY GIVE,
YOU KNOW, THEY MAKE THOSE SEATS
VERY SAFE AND TAKE THE REST OF
THE STATE TO BE SAFE REPUBLICAN
SEATS FOR THEMSELVES.
IN A STATE LIKE NORTH CAROLINA,
WHICH AS WE ALL KNOW, IS A 50/50
STATE BY ALL STANDARDS, YOU HAVE
A CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION THAT
WAS TEN REPUBLICANS AND THREE
DEMOCRATS.
REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE VOTERS
WANTED IN THAT STATE.
WE ACTUALLY FILED A LAWSUIT --
PLEASE, YES.
>> PLEASE, TELL ME ABOUT THE
LAWSUIT.
>> WE FILED A LAWSUIT IN 2019
AGAINST THAT MAP.
AND WE WERE SUCCESSFUL IN MAKING
THE MAP SLIGHTLY MORE FAIR.
IT IS NOW AN 8-5 DELEGATION WITH
EIGHT REPUBLICANS AND FIVE
DEMOCRATS.
BUT WE THINK THAT WITH THIS NEW
REDISTRICTING PROCESS, IT
ACTUALLY SHOULD BE A 50/50 MAP
IN A 50/50 STATE.
WHAT A FAIR MAP IS IN NORTH
CAROLINA SHOULD BE CLOSER TO
7-7, WHERE THERE ARE DISTRICTS
IN THE STATES THAT BOTH SIDES,
DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS, COULD
COMPETE FOR, AND THAT THE
OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION IS
REALLY DETERMINED BY THE VOTERS
IN THE ELECTION, NOT
PREDETERMINED BY THE MAPS, BY
PACKING A HANDFUL -- AS MANY OF
THE VOTERS, PARTICULARLY VOTERS
OF COLOR, INTO AS FEW DISTRICTS
AS POSSIBLE.
>> I WANT TO ZOOM OUT FOR A
SECOND, BECAUSE YOU HAVE SENATE
DEMOCRATS HOPING TO PASS THEIR
VERSION OF HR-1 LATER THIS YEAR.
SWEEPING ELECTIONS REFORM
LEGISLATION.
HOW WOULD THAT AFFECT THE
SYSTEMS AND PROCESSES WERE
TALKING ABOUT?
>> HR-1 IS AN INCREDIBLY
CONSEQUENTIAL PIECE OF
LEGISLATION FOR OUR DEMOCRACY
WRIT LARGE, AND ALSO FOR
REDISTRICTING.
WHAT IT DOES IS IT CREATES
INDEPENDENT COMMISSIONS IN EVERY
STATE FOR CONGRESSIONAL
ELECTIONS.
MEANING THAT THE REDISTRICTING
PROCESS FOR CONGRESSIONAL MAPS
HAS TO BE DONE THROUGH A
COMMISSION, WHICH IS MORE FAIR
THAN A PARTISAN DRAWN MAP.
THE MAPS THAT COME OUT OF
COMMISSIONS ARE MORE FAIR.
THEY ARE MORE RESPONSIVE TO THE
VOTERS.
THEY MORE ACCURATELY REFLECT THE
ELECTORATE IN THE COMMISSION.
HR-1 WOULD CREATE COMMISSIONS IN
EVERY STATE.
IN SOME WAYS MORE IMPORTANT THAN
THAT, HR-1 WOULD ELIMINATE
PARTISAN JERRY MANTDGERRYMANDERI
IT IS NOT ACCEPT, IT IS NOT
LEGAL, AND IT WOULD CREATE A
STANDARD THAT WOULD CHECK THE
STATES AND PREVENT THE PARTISAN
GERRYMANDERING LIKE YOU SAW IN
THAT MAP IN NORTH CAROLINA.
SO ITS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT.