on Friday DTE Energy filed it's very
closely watched plans for the future
with the Michigan Public Service
Commission DTE has already gotten
cleaner pretty quickly but they're
promising much bigger cuts to its carbon
footprint that will cheer
environmentalists no doubt at the same
time it worries some communities reliant
on the jobs in revenue that the old
plants have provided let's talk about it
with the CEO of DTE Jerry Anderson back
with a skin good to have you back on
flashpoint great to be here
III suppose the the broad picture of
this is it is good news that you you're
10 years ahead of where you thought you
were on getting carbon emissions down
and all that but you do have communities
worried it great to environmentalists
happy to see a coal plant shut down but
there's jobs in there you know well
you're right the the announcement that
we've made accelerates our carbon
reduction so back in 2017 we committed
to 80% by 2050 we've moved that to 2040
and we've committed to be down 50% by
2030 and you're right a key part of that
is the retirement of our aging coal
fleet and replacing those assets with
big investments in renewables and a
natural gas plant that we're building as
far as jobs we've committed to our
employees that there will be no jobs
lost we're retiring a lot of employees
we need to move these employees into our
into our base the communities we've been
working very closely with because for
them are like Trenton yeah exit text
because there there's that's just a
shutdown it's not being replaced with a
new plant there and it's it's it's tax
revenue absolutely and we know these tax
revenue to the school systems and the
communities is really important so we've
been in dialogue with them for years as
it turns out and they're trying to work
with them both on the phase-in
of that tax plan as well as other
economic development that we could work
with them on that could help replace it
this push to stop putting so much carbon
in the air means that you are kind of a
part of this big debate on climate
change and whether how much of it is
man-made and yet I've always gotten the
feeling and talking to you that you kind
of set those arguments aside because
it's just better business but can you
really set the arguments
I mean it's it's better for all of us
isn't it well look I'm clear where I
land on the arguments I think this is
one of the key issues of our time and I
think we are contributing with large
amounts of carbon into the atmosphere
and I think it's producing climate
change and so I think we as a company
have a responsibility to be right at the
center of the solution to that but I
think it's also true that the right
things for us to do around carbon
thankfully are aligning with the right
things for us to do in our business now
the technology is available to us
renewables are so much better than they
were 10 years ago in natural gas which
is very low carbon which we thought was
running out 10 years ago right the
country now has plentifully and so we
have good economic choices to reduce
carbon which align with a time when I
think it's critical to do that the
president has talked a lot about trying
to restore coal jobs to coal country and
you and I've talked about this before
that's really done isn't it as far as
you're concerned it's not going to
happen
look my coal plants are 60 in some cases
hitting on 70 years old one thing I said
is no administration can turn a 60 year
coal plant into a 10 year coal plant 10
year old coal plant yeah so these plants
are aging they need to be replaced and
the right thing to replace them with is
not coal nobody's doing that they're
replacing these plants with renewables
and natural gas interestingly from
talking to you earlier
we all feel like we are plugging in a
million things every day so many things
in our lives that need to be charged and
yet you're not really seeing you haven't
seen it's not a huge uptick in the
amount each of us is using how's that
that's all because of efficiency it's
very interesting our our load electric
load as a system is just flat as a
pancake might be up to 1/2 percent one
year down 1/2 percent the next year and
it's because we're producing efficiency
just as fast as we're adding new loads
so you're right people are plugging in
data centers are big draws on
electricity but these LEDs that that are
being sold now are so much more
efficient than the old lightbulbs new
air conditioners new refrigerators are
much better than the old ones and so
it's a race right now
our demand is flat so on the other end
though we can see that we're putting
less bad stuff into the environment but
at the other end there's a lot of
concern about what it takes to get
natural gas and we start talking about
fracking as somebody who used to live in
Oklahoma where I don't remember having
one earthquake the whole time I lived
there and now they happen all the time
are you concerned about the
environmental impact on the other end of
the of the food chain so I believe that
natural gas can be produced in a really
environmentally responsible way you need
to pay attention to the impacts like
that just like you do any other industry
and regulate it
and take appropriate steps but I think
they can be taken I think natural gas is
a really important transitional role to
play in getting this country through
quickly and affordably to lower carbon
we'll get there much faster using
natural gas than we would otherwise so
what do I mean when I say that the gas
plant that we're building up in st.
Clair County a billion-dollar invest
will end up being one of the most
efficient plants in the country is by
far the biggest step we will have taken
to reduce carbon one single step one
single step will reduce carbon more than
all the all the renewables that we or
the rest of the state of invested in
today because it's such a big energy
producer at very low carbon levels per
kilowatt hour compared to coal so it's a
big step down for us now do I think it
will run full-out forever no I think as
we continue to add more renewables over
time the use of that plan will probably
be lower but it's a it's a way for us to
move quickly and also backfill for those
coal plants reliably that works let's
talk about the green New Deal then with
its it's got a 10-year plan that wants
to get us to a hundred percent of the US
demand kind of come clean renewable zero
emission power is that even possible
No so I was just on Capitol Hill meeting
with many members of the legislature a
group of about 20 Democrats the chair of
the House environment subcommittee that
is not the way they're talking about
moving forward on climate change I also
talked to a whole range of suppose
would be cynical and say well you're the
guy who's maybe you know in your
position it would cost you a lot to try
and reach that goal is it not reachable
or not attractive to be reachable it's
not feasible for the country to make an
infrastructure transition that massive
in that shorter period and actually
people think that somehow renewables are
worse for us this is our business these
investments are positive things for us
but I also have a responsibility to make
those investments at a pace that keeps
things affordable for business and home
owners especially our homeowners who are
struggling and to do it in a way that
preserves reliability of electricity and
so when I say I don't think the green
New Deal is feasible I'm not saying that
I don't think sharp reductions in carbon
in a short time frame are feasible I
think we can yeah but it's a different
path than is described in that plan
you mentioned cost I suppose some would
also say well if we're going to be this
much more efficient with our energy
system you're gonna be a more efficient
company if you're gonna rely much more
on renewables shouldn't my bills
eventually start to go down so there was
a day when the worry about renewables
was that they would spike bills because
renewables were so expensive what's
happened in the meantime is that
renewables have a high investment cost
sure yeah but they have these bills cost
a lot yeah they cost a lot in capital
but they have no fuel and what we're
finding is that you can pull them in
with modest impacts on bills so the
worry of 10 years ago that using them
with spiked costs is not a worry today
they can be brought unreasonably they're
going to depress bills at least in the
near term long term they may as they can
as they continue to improve and we are
seeing the cost of solar and wind come
down they may be able to do that well
then lastly try to defend if you can
still the fact that it's largely a
business that is run by a monopoly a lot
of consumers are told you know we wait
to see the benefit of having no choices
basically and the choice is better not
only for us but it also forces you to be
a better company and that's not that
doesn't see to a lot of people doesn't
quite seem American the way
we operate our utilities so it it came
from that that form of regulation came
from the fact that they didn't want
people building multiple systems
simultaneously and it needed to be
planned or the other thing I'd tell you
is that choice and electricity if you
really track it states that are
deregulated have on average a fifteen
percent higher cost of power not lower
but higher cost of energy than states
that are regulated so the idea was that
somehow deregulation would depress
prices it hasn't happened in fact the
opposite is true they're higher priced
what's also come from deregulation is
confusing marketing campaigns from
people telling you I'll sell you this
electricity this way that ran drew the
average homeowner doesn't know a lot
about electricity and has a really hard
time evaluating those proposals and so
what we've seen is confused homeowners
big businesses can figure it out but the
average homeowner has trouble and prices
that are higher interesting it's fat it
is always fascinating to talk to you
Jerry Anderson I really appreciate the
time and we didn't even get to electric
cars as you and I talked about many
times over the years well do that to do
that another day you bet thanks for
being here
and job back with more on flash part
right after this