- Today we're discussing "Shattered
Empire" by Greg Rucka.
And stay tuned until the end when the Marvel series editor
Jordan D. White will join me to answer some of your questions
about the comics.
"The Star Wars" Show Book Club" is a series
where we gather friends and fans to read "Star Wars" books,
examining how they relate to all the "Star Wars" films,
live action shows, animated series, comics, and games.
Through these stories we enrich our understanding
of a galaxy far, far away.
[THEME MUSIC]
Hello.
Kristin Baver here ready to talk "Star Wars"
comics with a few new friends.
Our story begins during the Battle of Endor
near the finale of "Star Wars--
Return of the Jedi" and gives us a glimpse at what unfolds
after the Ewok Celebration.
Palpatine may be gone, but he's deployed his dreaded messengers
to execute Operation Cinder.
And even though the Empire lost the fight,
remnant cells continue to operate, forcing Rebel heroes
like Luke Skywalker, Leia Organa, Han Solo, and Lando
Calrissian to soldier on.
At the heart of the story is Shara Bey,
hotshot pilot who also happens to be
the mother of Poe Dameron.
Now let's meet our book club crew.
Today we're joined by Will Sliney, an artist for Marvel's
"Star Wars" comics.
We've also got Rob from Lucasfilm Publishing.
And we also have Vanessa, best known as the voice
of Hera on "Star Wars Rebels."
All right, let's jump right in.
This series picks right up at a crucial moment
at the end of one of the films, this time,
"The Return of the Jedi."
So I'm curious-- were you surprised to see the way
the comic reframed some aspects of the fight for getting Shara
Bey into the fray and in close contact with Luke, and Han,
and Leia, and Lando, and all these
other great characters that we and love from "Star Wars--
Return of the Jedi"?
- I was surprised that they didn't really win.
I thought Endor--
- Right?
- I thought Endor was it.
And I thought it was mission accomplished.
So it was interesting to see that, you know, sometimes we
think we're finished with something,
and no, there's still more to do.
- One of my favorite things about "Star Wars"
is that, like, if you just move the camera
over a tiny little bit to the right,
there's just a full new story there.
And I love that scene where Han is running into go up
the shield generator, and he just lobs the grenade
to someone to his right, who you find out
is Poe Dameron's father.
And just, you know, there's this whole world
of stories that really exists just in the peripheral
beyond the movies.
And it's amazing that we get to see all of them now.
- Yeah, that was one of my favorite aspects of the opening
of the comic as well, that, you know,
as we get to see those initial moments after the Endor battle,
we realized that that entire crowd
that we see during the Ewok Celebration,
those are individual characters that we can now
get to meet and learn things about, and see what
their struggles were as far as the way that the battle ended
and what they did and didn't achieve.
- Palpatine is a man who's always had schemes on schemes
on schemes on schemes.
But why do you think in the story he chose to execute
his postmortem plan of Operation Cinder
with these messengers that are essentially just these,
you know, lifeless drones that happened
to have his head, his holographic head,
as part of their composition?
- Well, you know, the Palpatine we've met through all
of the movies and all of the storytelling, you know,
was always a master puppeteer, a master--
you know, puppet master.
And to see him carry that forward with these, you know,
basically human-shaped marionettes,
moving them around the galaxy, delivering, you know,
just the most awful and vile messages, you know,
is a nice counterpoint to Order 66,
which was executed over a radio.
- And interestingly about the messenger, for me
I remember reading this book when it came out.
I'm reading it again now after seeing the last movie.
I have such a different feeling seeing that messenger,
whereas before I thought it was just kind of a spiteful,
oh, you've killed me, this is my plan.
Whereas now, it kind of seems to be
leading into an actual longer-term plan
from Palpatine.
So it was cool to read it with two very, very
different perspectives as well.
- I had the very same experience.
I kept thinking, oh, this really foretells what is ahead.
I actually did ADR with a group of people
for "Rise of Skywalker."
And we were all sitting around doing the--
[DRONING CHANTS] When I saw that mess occur,
I heard echoes of that, because I thought,
oh, he's somewhere in there doing that.
[SHUDDERS] Just scares me to death.
The other moment that I really loved
was when Princess Leia says, I feel cold.
And there's this image of Darth Maul.
I just thought that was so well done in the comic.
I felt a chill reading it.
- Well, and I love that whole trip to Naboo,
where she has that connection to Padmé, and her heritage,
and her birth mother.
I would like to open that up to the group, though.
What do you think the significance
was of Leia feeling Maul's presence on the planet
in that moment?
- Same kind of thing Again I have two different perspectives
on it again, now that I know how powerful she was in the Force.
Really, it's one of the first things apart from, you know--
one of the first things that we get to see her
do as a Jedi is get those kind of feelings.
And this is the first time, like, she's
had a real connection with the past.
- And I was also really glad to see
that the tradition of kickass queens of Naboo continues.
- Yes.
- When you look at Kes and Shara Bey,
does it impact how you view the character Poe Dameron on films?
- I never put it together about the hair
until you just said it there.
And it's totally right, actually.
[LAUGHTER]
- I just read "Resistance Reborn," which
talks about his hair a lot.
So I feel like it's just fresh in my mind
that he thinks about his coif quite a bit.
- At the ending, I thought it was such a beautiful way
to, you know, sort of bring this to a nice combination, where
you see them as a couple together with the tree.
And to me, that also told me a lot about where he came from.
- You know, Shara is such a strong character,
and she has so many layers to her.
She just had a baby, and then went
right back onto the front lines and left Poe with her father.
I find it so striking that, you know,
she's being given the chance to have
this quiet life with her family, but she's
still so pulled by the fight.
And her captain--
I think it's L'ulo--
pretty much has to give her the nudge,
and file the paperwork for her, and give her the permission
and, it's OK to make time for yourself
and to put yourself first for once,
and, you know, go have that quiet life.
But it's so refreshing that the focus is on her
as an individual and not just as a mother, not just as a wife,
not even just really as a cog in the Rebel alliance,
but how all of those things are encompassed in this character.
- Yeah, I liked that.
And I liked, again, that she's, you know,
given the space, the physical and emotional space,
to, you know, explore that, make those decisions without Kes
standing right next to her.
You know, it's not that they're not making these decisions
as partners as parents.
But, you know, she's having to figure a lot of this
out for what it means for her.
To a certain degree, what you're seeing
is the weird kind of echo to Han and Leia and Ben,
and how it goes not that well in so many ways.
- Maybe they should have stepped away from the war.
[LAUGHTER]
- Yeah.
- Goes not that well-- enter Kylo Ren.
- [SCREAMS]
- Luke and Leia's individual missions were a great way
of tying the original trilogy and the prequels and bring it
together in this nice package in the lead-up
to the sequel trilogy, which is when this
book was originally published.
What was your favorite part of the series?
- It was lovely to get to know new characters that
foretold things in the future.
But it was also really cool to see Lando
and R2-D2 and even Ackbar--
Oh, hey, how you doing?
Those little, little things delighted me.
I also-- yeah, I really loved how
Greg put those little things in there like,
I'm going to sleep so hard.
Little things that are just so relatable.
- For me, I completely agree how it
took this big, massive battle and took, brought it straight
down to about this little family who just want to get home
and raise their kid.
Back in 2015 I read this, I didn't
have a kid, whereas this time around I've
got a little one-year-old son.
And it was just a completely different
experience reading it.
And there was a scene in it when a Stormtrooper
pulls a gun on Kes.
And I couldn't remember the outcome of the story,
because it had been five years, I guess, since I read it.
And I didn't know if Kes was going to make it or not.
Whereas before, first time I read it,
I would have been like, oh, I'm sure he'll be fine or whatever.
Whereas this time, I was just really
concerned for the kid not to lose a father or something.
Because it's just, you know, a fear that I have as a father.
- There's that moment of elation at the beginning
that, you know, they're all seeing that, oh, the war is
over, we can actually step back, and then realizing,
eh, it's not actually over, you know.
And how each of them has to deal with how much more
they have to give to the cause.
You know, that really, you know, sang to me as sort of a,
you know, it's not a one and done kind of thing.
Yeah, we blew up the Death Star-- we blew it up twice.
But, you know, there's still work to be done.
Yeah--
- Hold onto your hats.
Here comes Starkiller base.
- Here comes Starkiller base.
- For me, I also just really loved
how it shifted some of how I saw some characters that I've known
and loved for years and years.
You know, Leia, you see her in a slightly different position
in the story in that moment, where
she's writing letters to inform the families of some
of her soldiers who have died.
Just, felt something different seeing her write those letters.
And also, I thought it says so much about the person
that the Organas raised, that she doesn't want
a protocol droid to help her.
She wants to hand-write everything and give it--
imbue it with all that emotion that's
genuine and authentic to her.
- Can you imagine and C-3PO writing one of those?
[LAUGHTER]
Wouldn't go down very well.
- No.
- Don't you call me a mindless philosopher,
you overweight glob of grease.
- Well, I feel like you brought a show and tell today.
- Oh, the art?
- It's a terrible segue. - Yeah.
- Did you? Yes.
- Yeah.
I really wanted to draw a picture of Shara
after reading the whole thing.
She was such a great.
Character there's a lot of personality to her, which
is always a kind of a fun thing to try
and do when you're drawing.
But it's always fun to do your first take
on a "Star Wars" character that you haven't drawn before.
- The rest of us didn't bring anything to show and tell,
but that's OK.
- I've got a little Stormtrooper.
- I have new wall art.
- Oh, we're getting more toys.
- I do-- no, well, I do have my "Episode VII"
hat, which I can't very well placed over my buns.
- Whoo-hoo.
- Oh, very cool, will.
Oh, I envy you so much.
- Well, thank you so much for sharing your opinions
and your toys and drawings.
This has been an awesome conversation all
about "Shattered Empire."
And I so appreciate all of you taking the time.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
And now we're joined by Jordan D. White, a Senior Editor
at Marvel who also edited "Shattered Empire"
and many other "Star Wars" books.
- Hi, how's it going?
- Good, how are you?
- Very good.
Thank you for having me.
- Thank you for joining us.
We have a lot of good questions.
Darryl Cooper wants to know--
"Was it daunting telling a story about Luke after
'Return of the Jedi,' when nothing was yet known
about the sequel trilogy?"
- No, it was incredibly thrilling to be able to say,
we are going to actually show what happened
next right after that--
that adventure that we've all seen a million times.
It was-- it was so neat.
The fact that we got, you know, more adventures
on Endor for a minute there.
We got to go back to Naboo.
And Luke, in particular, seeing him come into his own
as a Jedi, or having come into his own as a Jedi,
and what he does next, and setting that off--
seeking out the tree saplings--
so, so interesting and so exciting, and such cool
ideas that Greg brought to it about what
Luke would need to do next.
And yeah, I was really thrilled.
- From "Star Wars Show Book Club" superfan Kanjichris--
"What is it like creating a story that fills
in some gaps between 'Return of the Jedi,' and 'The Force
Awakens?'
How much of the story and characters
do you get to create yourself, and how much is already given
to you for continuity's sake?
Or is it more of a collaboration?"
- It's definitely a-- very much a collaboration.
You know, we always have worked closely
with the story group on every story that we did together.
Most of the time, we would come up with the story
and go to them and say, here's what we'd like to do,
and then they would come back to us
with their notes about how and why it could work,
or what needs to change in order to make
it fit with other plans.
And if-- yeah, so if we went too far and said,
so at this point Luke gets cut in half, they would say to us,
no, no, no.
That can't happen.
[LAUGHTER]
- Yeah.
- But, generally speaking, they've
always been very receptive to what
we want to tell a story about.
- We get to see a very tranquil and mature
Luke in the final issue.
How did the creative team behind the comic
really bring that Luke to life?
- Well, I mean, I think a lot of that
comes from his portrayal in "Return of the Jedi,"
like over the whole film.
But, you know, when he shows up in Jabba's palace,
he feels so different from the last time we saw him.
The Luke that is training on Dagobah in "Empire"--
he still feels really young.
He still feels inexperienced, even though he's already
a hero of the Rebellion, and he's already
a leader in the Rebellion.
- Arguably, he singlehandedly blow up the Death Star.
- Yeah, well, he definitely did that.
[EXPLOSION]
You know, he felt different.
And again, that's why, right now, them
exploring what happened to him between "Empire"
and "Jedi"-- which is a shorter period of time
than between "New Hope" and "Empire," even--
that's going to be a really interesting story to read about
in the main "Star Wars" book.
But I think we took our cues from it--
from the film.
It's just how different it feels.
And then I think he does have that real peace at the end,
because he knows he was right about his father.
He didn't have to kill him, even though, unfortunately, he
did die.
He knows, though, that he kind of lives on in spirit.
He saw that truth.
That's probably like the peak of his confidence
and most assuredness at that point.
- Yeah.
So it strikes me, also, that a lot of people who work on "Star
Wars" today, because the franchise is more than 40 years
old, grew up as fans first.
Does your favorite part as the editor
differ from your favorite part as just a reader and fan?
- That's a great question.
And it's very interesting, because yeah--
what is the divide between--
between me as a fan and as a professional
who worked on them?
It's a tough call.
Because honestly, I-- so I, like you said,
I grew up on "Star Wars."
But I am--
I think I'm much more of a "Star Wars"
than now having worked on it than I was before.
Working on the stories made me love them even more.
So now when I enjoy "Star Wars"--
because I no longer work on "Star Wars" books--
now when I enjoy "Star Wars" books, it is purely as a fan.
But that love is so deepened by having worked on them.
- Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Jordan.
We really appreciate it.
- Thank you for having me.
- Thanks to all of you who joined in from home,
sent in your questions, and watched along.
Come back next week when "The Star Wars Show Book
Club" returns to dig into "The Legends of Luke Skywalker"
by Ken Liu.
And don't forget to tweet your questions
using hashtag #SWSBCLEGENDS, and we'll ask some on the show.
Until then, may the Force be with you.
[THEME MUSIC]