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>>> WELCOME BACK AND WHAT WE THOUGHT WOULD BE THE TOP STORY
OF THE DAY AND IN SOME WAYS IT
MAY HAVE HELPED DRIVE THE STOP
STORY OF THE DAY.
U.S. AMBASSADOR GORDON SONDLAND.
DESPITE THE PRESIDENT URGING
THEM, IN SOME WAYS BEGGING THEM
NOT TO COOPERATE.
DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMAN PETER
WELCH IS ON THE INTELLIGENCE AND
OVERSIGHT COMMITTEES.
OVERSIGHT COMMITTEES. HE’S BEEN IN THE ROOM FOR MUCH
OF SONDLAND’S TESTIMONY TODAY.
AND JUST FROM THE LETTER, FROM
THE OPENING STATEMENT THAT
THE -- THAT WAS MADE PUBLIC,
CONGRESSMAN WELCH, I WANT TO PUT
UP WHAT HE SAID ABOUT HIS --
ABOUT THE PHONE CONVERSATION
WITH THE PRESIDENT.
AND START OUR QUESTIONING FROM
THERE.
THERE. I CALLED PRESIDENT TRUMP
DIRECTLY.
DIRECTLY. I ASKED THE PRESIDENT WHAT DO
YOU WANT FROM UKRAINE?
THE PRESIDENT RESPONDED NOTHING.
THERE IS NO QUID PRO QUO.
THE PRESIDENT REPEATED NO QUID
PRO QUO MULTIPLE TIMES.
THIS WAS A VERY SHORT CALL AND I
RECALL THAT THE PRESIDENT WAS IN
A BAD MOOD.
CONGRESSMAN WELCH, GORDON
SONDLAND TODAY, DID HE PAINT A
PICTURE OF THE PRESIDENT CALLING
THE SHOTS HERE ON UKRAINE?
OR OF RUDY GIULIANI CALLING THE
SHOTS HERE ON UKRAINE?
>> WELL, AS YOU KNOW, HIS
TESTIMONY IS CONTINUING BUT HIS
OPENING STATEMENT WHICH IS
PUBLIC MADE IT VERY, VERY CLEAR
THAT GIULIANI WAS IN CHARGE OF
THE REAL UKRAINE POLICY.
IN SOME WAYS, SONDLAND WAS A
PERFECT PERSON TO BE THE
AMBASSADOR BECAUSE ESSENTIALLY
HE WAS A HUGE CONTRIBUTOR.
HE GOT HIMSELF AN
AMBASSADORSHIP.
AMBASSADORSHIP. HE KNEW VERY LITTLE ABOUT
FOREIGN POLICY.
FOREIGN POLICY. SO HE ACTUALLY THOUGHT HE WAS
DOING THE PRESIDENT’S WORK ON
UKRAINE AND IT WAS ONLY AFTER
THE FACT WHEN HE READ ABOUT THE
TRANSCRIPT OF THE CALL AND HE
SAW SOME OF THOSE TEXTS THAT HE
REALIZED THAT WHAT REALLY RUDY
GIULIANI WAS DOING, WHO HE KNEW
WAS IN CHARGE, WAS NOT THE
FOREIGN POLICY THAT HE THOUGHT
HE WAS PURSUING WAS ABOUT.
>> CONGRESSMAN, IT SOUNDS LIKE
YOU THINK GORDON SONDLAND WAS
DUPED BY THE PRESIDENT AND
GIULIANI.
GIULIANI. >> HE WAS.
>> YOU THINK HE WAS DUPED.
YEAH.
YEAH. >> HE WAS THRILLED TO BE AN
AMBASSADOR.
AMBASSADOR. YOU KNOW, HE MADE HUGE
CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE TRUMP
CAMPAIGN AND THERE IS A HISTORY
IN THIS COUNTRY, REPUBLICANS AND
DEMOCRATS, OF PAYING OFF SOME
CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTORS WITH AN
AMBASSADORSHIP.
AMBASSADORSHIP. SO HE HAD THE BEST OF
INTENTIONS.
INTENTIONS. I DON’T DOUBT THAT WHATSOEVER.
BUT HE, UNLIKE SOME OF THE
OTHERS, KNEW HOW FOREIGN POLICY
WAS SUPPOSED TO WORK.
SO THEY HAD A KIND OF SKEPTICISM
THAT HE WASN’T ABLE TO BRING TO
THE JOB.
THE JOB. SO HE WAS THRILLED TO BE ON THE
SCENE.
SCENE. HE THOUGHT HE WAS DOING WHAT HE
COULD TO ADVANCE AMERICA’S
INTEREST.
INTEREST. BUT WHAT HE DID KNOW WAS THAT IT
WAS GIULIANI WHO HAD TO CALL THE
FINAL SHOTS, NOT HIM.
>> WHAT WE LEARNED FROM MICK
MULVANEY TODAY WHERE HE ADMITTED
TO AT LEAST ONE PART OF THE QUID
PRO QUO AND THAT THEY WERE
ASKING FOR AN INVESTIGATION INTO
THE SERVER CONSPIRACY.
IS THAT REAL-TIME DEVELOPMENT
HAD AN IMPACT ON THE QUESTIONING
OF MR. SONDLAND?
>> I’M NOT SURE IT WOULD HAVE
MUCH AN IMPACT ON SONDLAND
BECAUSE HE’S REALLY CONFIRMING
WHAT WE KNOW.
THAT THERE WAS THIS OFF THE
BOOKS FORM
BOOKS FORM BOOKS FOREIGN POLICY THROUGH
GIULIANI.
GIULIANI. I THINK WHAT IS SIGNIFICANT
ABOUT MULVANEY IS THE EXPLOSIVE
NATURE OF WHAT HE SAID.
ESSENTIALLY, TODAY, AND IT WILL
BE REMEMBERED, THE WHITE HOUSE
WENT FROM WE DIDN’T DO IT TO SO
WHAT IF WE DID?
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT
IT?
IT? THAT’S ESSENTIALLY WHERE THEY
ARE NOW.
ARE NOW. AND WHAT THE PRESIDENT WITH HIS
ADMISSION THROUGH MULVANEY IS
TRYING TO DO IS SAY THIS IS WHAT
EVERYBODY DOES.
EVERYBODY DOES. BUT WHAT’S DIFFERENT IS, SURE,
THERE’S NEGOTIATION IN FOREIGN
POLICY.
POLICY. BUT THE GOAL IS THE NATIONAL
SECURITY INTEREST OF THIS
COUNTRY, NOT THE
PERSONAL/POLITICAL INTEREST OF
THE PRESIDENT WHO HAPPENS TO BE
OCCUPYING THE OVAL OFFICE.
SO IT IS VERY, VERY SERIOUS AND
IT’S GOING TO BE A REAL
CHALLENGE I THINK TO MY
REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES BECAUSE
YOU’VE GOT THE ADMISSION OF
USING THE OFFICE OF THE
PRESIDENCY IN A WAY THAT SUB
SUBVERTS NATIONAL SECURITY
INTEREST TO ADVANCE YOUR OWN
CAMPAIGN.
CAMPAIGN. >> HOW HAS SONDLAND BEEN TREATED
BY THE COMMITTEE?
DO YOU FEEL LIKE HE’S BEEN
FORTHCOMING?
FORTHCOMING? YOU SOUND VERY EMPATHETIC TO HIM
A BIT.
A BIT. WHEN DO YOU FEEL LIKE HE KNEW HE
WAS BEING USED?
>> I’M NOT SURE BECAUSE HE SAID
IN HIS OPENING STATEMENT, AS YOU
KNOW, THAT IT WAS ALL AFTER THE
FACT IS WHEN THAT PUBLICATION,
THE PHONE CALL CAME OUT.
IT’S WHEN THOSE TEXTS CAME OUT.
SO IT WAS LIKE TOO OBVIOUS FOR
HIM TO IGNORE.
BUT I GOT THE SENSE -- HE WAS
TREATED VERY NICELY BY THE
REPUBLICANS AND BY THE
DEMOCRATS.
DEMOCRATS. YOU KNOW, HE’S NOT THE ARCHITECT
OF THIS.
OF THIS. HE WAS ON THE PERIPHERY OF IT.
EVEN THOUGH HE WAS IN ON THESE
MEETINGS, HE JUST DIDN’T
UNDERSTAND THAT THE REAL MEETING
WAS IN THE ROOM NEXT DOOR.
>> HOW DO YOU GUYS PLAN TO GET
THE WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF,
ACTING OR OTHERWISE, TO TESTIFY?
BECAUSE I’M GUESSING YOU’RE
GOING TO WANT TO HEAR FROM MR.
MULVANEY NOW AND HE’S GOING TO
HAVE THAT POWERFUL EXECUTIVE
PRIVILEGE ARGUMENT TO MAKE.
HOW IS THAT GOING TO WORK?
>> YOU KNOW, AS A PRACTICAL
MATTER, I THINK IF HE ASSERTS --
IF THE PRESIDENT ASSERTS
EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE, IT’S GOING
TO BE TOUGH TO OVERCOME.
BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU JUST TAKE
WHAT IS IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN.
THE PRESIDENT’S RELEASE OF THE
TRANSCRIPT OF HIS CALL WITH THE
PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE.
MR. MULVANEY’S PRESS CONFERENCE
TODAY WHERE HE BASICALLY SAYS,
SO WHAT?
SO WHAT? WE DID IT.
THAT’S WHAT YOU DO.
WELL, THAT’S NOT TRUE.
THIS IS ILLEGAL CONDUCT THAT
THEY ARE CONDONING.
SO DO WE REALLY NEED HIM TO SAY
MORE THAN WHAT HE’S ALREADY SAID
PUBLICLY AND TO THE WHOLE
COUNTRY?
COUNTRY? >> YEAH.
>> YEAH. WELL, THAT’S A QUESTION SOME
PEOPLE ARE ASKING.
HOW MUCH MORE TIME DO YOU NEED
TO INVESTIGATE BEFORE YOU START
WRITING YOUR ARTICLES?
>> WELL, THAT’S -- THERE IS A
QUESTION THE COMMITTEE’S GOING
TO HAVE TO ANSWER.
BUT IT’S IMPORTANT FOR US TO DO
THE BEST WE CAN TO BE THOROUGH
BUT NOT DILATORY.
AND THAT’S WHAT CHAIRMAN SCHIFF